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Jazz Audition reject
- Thread starter jacohead
- Start date
Maybe some of your trouble lies in your online name ? You seem very cocky in your post as well as a bit arrogant ? Yes,you do need to read,but just as important....leave your ego at the door. Even the best (and I really doubt your one of them,no offence) get turned down,just part of the game brother. Take in on the chin and move on. Peace
Not entirely true - trombone players read bass clef and I have been in bands with a trombone player!
I tend to find that music from before 1960 can be played by ear and there is a good chance of having heard a recording and knowing how it goes! Where reading is crucial, for me, is where you are playing an original Jazz tune written by a band member, for example - where there is absolutely no chance you have heard it before!
I dunno. You ever show up for a gig with one rehearsal, tell the guy paying you that you will listen to the CD before the gig and get called back? Also, there was a lot of music made before 1960. Anyway, my point is, reading is pretty crucial. I think its not too hard to have passable "bass chart" reading together.
this thread has to be a joke. nobody who's good at jazz doesn't know where all the notes are on their instrument. and if you can't read, the likelihood of getting hired by a jazz band is nil and everyone knows it. so there's no other conclusion i can come to except this is a joke thread.
I think we're agreeing - but I was just saying that if it's music written before 1960, then I at least have a chance of having heard the tune and knowing how to play it with needing sheet music - as is often the case with "Jazz Standards", where it is expected that you will not need music and will just play!
Whereas, if it is an original piece written yesterday, by a fellow band member then there is absolutely no chance of that and I will have to sight read it - no question!
If you want to play in a jazz band you really should know how to read. At least be able to read a chord chart and know how to improv. not every jazz great was a good sightreader and there was only a handful of first call session players from the big band era that were pro's at it.
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,401
- 9,834
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,401
- 9,834
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
A musician learns, and loves, all aspects of the language and culture. They embrace the process, skip 'shortcuts', constantly seek growth, education, and refinement.
The greats have unflappable integrity, often misconstrued as snobbery. To be a proficient musician, regardless of style, you have to make the commitment to MUSIC. To be a proficient player you can learn a few notes and pound away, and there's nothing wrong with that, but your opportunities will be limited.
Unfortunately, jazz and classical get a bad rap for being stuffy, but in order to play that music well you gotta know your s***, and reading is a very important part of the pie.
One is considered illiterate if one can't read or write, much less know the alphabet. Why should anything be different in music? Why would you expect to be able to hang with a group of folks who have made the commitment? You certainly don't deserve it if you don't know where C#is. ..... this stuff isn't rocket science.
The greats have unflappable integrity, often misconstrued as snobbery. To be a proficient musician, regardless of style, you have to make the commitment to MUSIC. To be a proficient player you can learn a few notes and pound away, and there's nothing wrong with that, but your opportunities will be limited.
Unfortunately, jazz and classical get a bad rap for being stuffy, but in order to play that music well you gotta know your s***, and reading is a very important part of the pie.
One is considered illiterate if one can't read or write, much less know the alphabet. Why should anything be different in music? Why would you expect to be able to hang with a group of folks who have made the commitment? You certainly don't deserve it if you don't know where C#is. ..... this stuff isn't rocket science.
Yes - it's like applying to be an actor and saying that you don't know how to read, but you'll busk it if the writer just gives you an idea of what your character would say...
Reading is just for people who want to do Shakespeare!!
Reading is just for people who want to do Shakespeare!!
there has been lots of self-glorfication by certain members of the wrecking crew at the expense of all others. however, i do agree that not every jazz great was a good sightreader. you must remember that there was a time that jazz was considered as much of a joke as current jazz players think of rock and pop. a lot of the early tradition was passed along through ear before it became the thing to study it academically and write it down in notation. but by the time of the big bands, notation was well-accepted and sightreading skills became more prized.That was not a idea but from a member of the wrecking crew I studied under.
in other words, this isn't 1936 anymore and holding yourself to 1936 standards will certainly guarantee that time will pass you by.
I agree with you guys. and I am no expert like my instructor. But I am taking every advantage to learn something that is being passed down to me. We got it easy with software available today. these cats did it with pencil and paper lol.
I want to post a article about this subject my instructor wrote for Just Jazz Guitar Magazine with his permission.
Hope you enjoy.
"A Studio Career:
What it Takes"
by FGC MagOnLine columnist Ralph Grasso
Some people think that if they've recorded in a studio a time or two, they can consider themselves a studio musician. Like any serious life skill, being an overnight success in the studio takes many years of dedicated study and practice. A studio musician is a very rare person who has talent and musical skill that is highly tuned. A further requirement is a personality that allows cool and creativity under, often, extreme pressure.
Producers, arrangers, and artists generally won't try a new musician on a recording session. The reasons are obvious. Studio time and musicians are very expensive, and must be paid whether the session is a success or not. If you are hired and do not perform as required, the word goes out to everyone that you didn't do a good job. Your chances of being hired in the future are pretty slim. Producers won't take a chance with you again.
If you are still reading this, there is a chance you may be interested in this subject--if not an actual career in the studio. Let's move on. From my experience, here's what it takes:
On record sessions, not only is it important to be able to read music, but a big part is to convey the feeling the arranger intended with his arrangement. It is important to be creative on the spot and give an arranger / producer what he is looking for, without it being expressed fully in the written musical part. When producers or arrangers find you can contribute in this manner, they are likely to give you first call for their sessions.
Today, many record dates are recorded in layers. The first session is with the rhythm section and the lead vocalist. After the rhythm and "work vocal" tracks are recorded, the arranger will take a copy and write for the horns, strings, etc. These parts will be added during the next session. The lead vocalist is then given a rough copy of the recording called "work mix". This has everything recorded to this point. The lead vocal is left out so the vocalist can rehearse at home with the tracks. When the lead vocalist feels comfortable a session will be scheduled to record just the vocal. During this session, the vocalist has time to record many takes until the sound and feel is right. The recorded media (tape, disc, etc.) is then given to the background vocal arranger. Then the background singers are recorded. Occasionally, the background singers will record at the same time as the lead vocalist. The complete multi-track master will then be gone over, seeing if any changes are to be made. If not, the final mix session is scheduled. This is when the multi-track will be mixed down to the final stereo master.
Motion picture and TV scoring is different. You are required to be a good sight-reader. It is also important to get in and out of the studio in the allotted time. The entire orchestra is recorded at the same time, not like records, which may be done in layers. You have to read the part exactly as it is written. There is no time to fix things or to do it over and over. You must also have all the correct instruments needed for the session. However, you are never told what instruments to bring to the studio; you are expected to have them all. There are times you may not like the type of music you are required to play, but you must perform it all well. You are being paid to fill the musical requirements the arranger has written.
During film and TV scoring sessions, you will be using clicks as well as "free" time. Most studio guitarists tune all their instruments, banjo, mandolin, etc. the same as the guitar. The conductors, arrangers and the studio contractors usually know their players and their capabilities.
If you want to become a studio musician, first work on your instumental and reading skills. Learn to be creative on the spot. Then move to an area such as Los Angeles, New York, or Nashville. The odds are a million to one against you, but that didn't stop me. You have to be where the business is. The next step is to have people hear you. You have to get out and play and build a good reputation. Never give up. As soon as you put the instrument in the corner, it's all over. You have to believe in yourself first, then people will believe in you.
Practice, Practice, Practice --- Good Luck!
Sincerely, Ralph Grasso
I want to post a article about this subject my instructor wrote for Just Jazz Guitar Magazine with his permission.
Hope you enjoy.
"A Studio Career:
What it Takes"
by FGC MagOnLine columnist Ralph Grasso
Some people think that if they've recorded in a studio a time or two, they can consider themselves a studio musician. Like any serious life skill, being an overnight success in the studio takes many years of dedicated study and practice. A studio musician is a very rare person who has talent and musical skill that is highly tuned. A further requirement is a personality that allows cool and creativity under, often, extreme pressure.
Producers, arrangers, and artists generally won't try a new musician on a recording session. The reasons are obvious. Studio time and musicians are very expensive, and must be paid whether the session is a success or not. If you are hired and do not perform as required, the word goes out to everyone that you didn't do a good job. Your chances of being hired in the future are pretty slim. Producers won't take a chance with you again.
If you are still reading this, there is a chance you may be interested in this subject--if not an actual career in the studio. Let's move on. From my experience, here's what it takes:
On record sessions, not only is it important to be able to read music, but a big part is to convey the feeling the arranger intended with his arrangement. It is important to be creative on the spot and give an arranger / producer what he is looking for, without it being expressed fully in the written musical part. When producers or arrangers find you can contribute in this manner, they are likely to give you first call for their sessions.
Today, many record dates are recorded in layers. The first session is with the rhythm section and the lead vocalist. After the rhythm and "work vocal" tracks are recorded, the arranger will take a copy and write for the horns, strings, etc. These parts will be added during the next session. The lead vocalist is then given a rough copy of the recording called "work mix". This has everything recorded to this point. The lead vocal is left out so the vocalist can rehearse at home with the tracks. When the lead vocalist feels comfortable a session will be scheduled to record just the vocal. During this session, the vocalist has time to record many takes until the sound and feel is right. The recorded media (tape, disc, etc.) is then given to the background vocal arranger. Then the background singers are recorded. Occasionally, the background singers will record at the same time as the lead vocalist. The complete multi-track master will then be gone over, seeing if any changes are to be made. If not, the final mix session is scheduled. This is when the multi-track will be mixed down to the final stereo master.
Motion picture and TV scoring is different. You are required to be a good sight-reader. It is also important to get in and out of the studio in the allotted time. The entire orchestra is recorded at the same time, not like records, which may be done in layers. You have to read the part exactly as it is written. There is no time to fix things or to do it over and over. You must also have all the correct instruments needed for the session. However, you are never told what instruments to bring to the studio; you are expected to have them all. There are times you may not like the type of music you are required to play, but you must perform it all well. You are being paid to fill the musical requirements the arranger has written.
During film and TV scoring sessions, you will be using clicks as well as "free" time. Most studio guitarists tune all their instruments, banjo, mandolin, etc. the same as the guitar. The conductors, arrangers and the studio contractors usually know their players and their capabilities.
If you want to become a studio musician, first work on your instumental and reading skills. Learn to be creative on the spot. Then move to an area such as Los Angeles, New York, or Nashville. The odds are a million to one against you, but that didn't stop me. You have to be where the business is. The next step is to have people hear you. You have to get out and play and build a good reputation. Never give up. As soon as you put the instrument in the corner, it's all over. You have to believe in yourself first, then people will believe in you.
Practice, Practice, Practice --- Good Luck!
Sincerely, Ralph Grasso
Jazz was being written down for business reasons, a few decades before it became an academic subject. AFAIK the earliest developments of jazz in New Orleans attracted both self-taught and formally trained musicians. Also, sheet music was a huge industry before the advent of recording, and precursors to jazz such as ragtime were being published before 1900. Fats Waller published jazz tunes in the 1920's. I've played off of charts that old.
For bands, having written charts made it possible to manage a band with changing personnel, or hire a band on the spot in a new town. I am sure there were bands, where the front man couldn't read, but he expected all of his side men to be good sight-readers. The same thing is true today. Written charts are a band management tool.
know alot more than you know
it's obvious that most of the posters here, although well meaning and with lots of good advice, are not jazzers either.
It's great to see the respect for the form. They know how hard it actually is!
You not only need to know how to read but hear chord changes in your head, the movement, - read changes and know their relationships to each other, be able to transpose in your head to another key on the spot and most of all....
be able to improvise and stretch over changes (you won't even know these terms).
When they tried to find the human activity that caused the greatest amount of brain activity - guess what - it was classical musicians reading and playing difficult written passages.
So they looked further and there was ONLY one activity that created MORE activity - jazzers looking at charts and improvising over the tune.
'nuff said
it's obvious that most of the posters here, although well meaning and with lots of good advice, are not jazzers either.
It's great to see the respect for the form. They know how hard it actually is!
You not only need to know how to read but hear chord changes in your head, the movement, - read changes and know their relationships to each other, be able to transpose in your head to another key on the spot and most of all....
be able to improvise and stretch over changes (you won't even know these terms).
When they tried to find the human activity that caused the greatest amount of brain activity - guess what - it was classical musicians reading and playing difficult written passages.
So they looked further and there was ONLY one activity that created MORE activity - jazzers looking at charts and improvising over the tune.
'nuff said
And then they found one MORE activity -- jazzers looking at charts and improvising over the tune while checking out the person who just walked in the door, and wondering if the kitchen will still be open at the end of the set.... 
The last post brought up a good story about paying attention when reading a score while playing. I was at Ralph's studio taking a lesson and afterwards he asked me if I just wanted to let off some steam and just have fun and play. I said yes. We played the jazz standard "Watch What Happens" and I pulled out my bass music sheet. Before we started I had to step out of the room for a few minutes and when I came back we started playing it. After we were done he patted me on the back and said I sounded great but I missed a note and played a sub over it. I had to laugh because I could play that tune in my sleep without looking at the chart. I told him no I did not. lol. I found out that when I stepped away for a few minutes he changed my sheet music with one that had a note change on one measure and did not tell me.
My point is improv is ok but if an arranger writes a paticular note for me to play I should have caught that and played it exactly as written. We both had a good laugh but it was a valuable lesson to me to really pay attention even if I have played a score 1,000 times.
My point is improv is ok but if an arranger writes a paticular note for me to play I should have caught that and played it exactly as written. We both had a good laugh but it was a valuable lesson to me to really pay attention even if I have played a score 1,000 times.
thanks for the clarification, f. you're way more schooled on the history of it than i am. at least i wasn't too far off
