Jazz bass wiring help - master volume + blend, with a push-pull tone pot for series/parallel

[Jazz Ad]

To sum up the info above, here's the main issue regarding your setup : A properly working series/parallel switch with blend requires a 3pdt, and 3pdt is extremelly rare on push-pull.

There are basically 3 ways around this :
- Use a 2pdt push-pull but in series the blend will act as a volume. You will need to roll it fully to one end to enjoy your series wiring.
- Use a 3pdt switch rather than a push-pull.
- Find a 3pdt push-pull, which may take a while. Banzai Music used to have some, some builders like MEC can do them custom for you, you may also be able to find one eventually on Reverb or eBay.

 

[difesa98]

To sum up the info above, here's the main issue regarding your setup : A properly working series/parallel switch with blend requires a 3pdt, and 3pdt is extremelly rare on push-pull.

There are basically 3 ways around this :
- Use a 2pdt push-pull but in series the blend will act as a volume. You will need to roll it fully to one end to enjoy your series wiring.
- Use a 3pdt switch rather than a push-pull.
- Find a 3pdt push-pull, which may take a while. Banzai Music used to have some, some builders like MEC can do them custom for you, you may also be able to find one eventually on Reverb or eBay.

Yes, i will use a 3pdt Switch and a normal pot (both for volume and tone); do you have this wiring diagram?

 

[difesa98]

Yes, i will use a 3pdt Switch and a normal pot (both for volume and tone); do you have this wiring diagram?

I come up with this practical wiring, anyone can confirm this?

 

[difesa98]

I come up with this practical wiring, anyone can confirm this?

I tried this wiring yesterday, It works flawlessly; thank you all

 

[mrperkolator]

I tried this wiring yesterday, It works flawlessly; thank you all

So it works well.... how does it sound? how well does that blend work? I noticed it's ungrounded, did you cut the traces too?

Edit: I may end up going with this. I've had other ideas, but the simplicity of this circuit makes it pretty usable and easy. Something valuable in that.

 

[difesa98]

So it works well.... how does it sound? how well does that blend work? I noticed it's ungrounded, did you cut the traces too?


Edit: I may end up going with this. I've had other ideas, but the simplicity of this circuit makes it pretty usable and easy. Something valuable in that.

I did not cut any traces; in parallel the blend works very well, probably i find my new favorite way to blend between 2 pick-ups, it works very progressively. In series the blend Is completely excluded since the 2 single coil act like an humbucker. On the switch, the arrow represent a jumper. Hope that helps!

 

[mrperkolator]

I did not cut any traces; in parallel the blend works very well, probably i find my new favorite way to blend between 2 pick-ups, it works very progressively. In series the blend Is completely excluded since the 2 single coil act like an humbucker. On the switch, the arrow represent a jumper. Hope that helps!

Oh ok. I hadn't dug deep into it. Once I think I figured out a way to do the blend in both series / parallel, but it would require 3 poles (and I was trying to figure it out with a 2 pole rotary). Once I have time I may have to play with this idea again, and find my notes.

 

[BassCajon]

Putting the pickups in series essentially turns them into a single large pickup, so the blend will act as a second volume control. There's no way around it using a standard DPDT switch., even with a VVT setup only one volume works in series.

There was a long and very involved thread in this forum about whether it would even be possible to have a scheme with series/parallel switching AND still have individual volume and tone for each pickup. Long story short, it is possible but requires a FOUR pole, double throw toggle switch to switch between series and parallel.

I would like to see this thread you're referring to as I recently found a 4P2T mini switch.
I'm going to be fixing up my busted up 90s Jazz bass with a S/P switch (possibly in this way) once i decide on a set of pickups. I just need to understand my possibilities a little better but I think I'd prefer a switch over a push/pull here and dont mind drilling the plate.

 

[mrperkolator]

I would like to see this thread you're referring to as I recently found a 4P2T mini switch.
I'm going to be fixing up my busted up 90s Jazz bass with a S/P switch (possibly in this way) once i decide on a set of pickups. I just need to understand my possibilities a little better but I think I'd prefer a switch over a push/pull here and dont mind drilling the plate.

Check out this TB post. I'm using a variant of it for my jazz (in the next couple days). You can use a dpdt switch. Just one. If you put the two volumes as one blend (top half blend being neck vol, bottom side being bridge) and then put another master volume where his picture has a tone then it should work with a Master vol / blend / Tone and Switch for s/p. I haven't put this on a breadboard and tested it yet, but it should work

Here's the picture if you didn't want to follow the link to the other thread....

 

[BassCajon]

Check out this TB post. I'm using a variant of it for my jazz (in the next couple days). You can use a dpdt switch. Just one. If you put the two volumes as one blend (top half blend being neck vol, bottom side being bridge) and then put another master volume where his picture has a tone then it should work with a Master vol / blend / Tone and Switch for s/p. I haven't put this on a breadboard and tested it yet, but it should work.
View attachment 4909735

Thanks. Kinda struggling with schematics but i love thinking about these possibilities in a fully passive circuit.
And thanks for the link. is your schematic showing the same thing as ddawg's/Stealths diagram in that link?

Crater was originally talking about a 4P2T switch but I was trying to understand if that calls for a second tone knob getting installed. Does it? or would that be done with a push/pull tone pot?
Really trying to get a grasp on this.

 

[fig]

...is your schematic showing the same thing as ddawg's/Stealths diagram in that link?

Yep, that's it. I liked that wiring diagram (Stealth's) that DDawg posted, so I made the schematic from it so I could quickly see how it worked.

Here's both together to save folk from thread jumping. Two pickup Series/Parallel switching with Master Tone using a DPDT switch (push/pull or toggle).:

Diagram:


Schematic:

 

[BassCajon]

Great. Thanks fig.
I will most likely be going with this setup.
it seems to offer some awesome capabilities in a J bass setup. Very cool.

So do the pickups need to be single coil, (not split or stacked coil) for this to sound right in series?

 

[fig]

So do the pickups need to be single coil, (not split or stacked coil) for this to sound right in series?

I couldn't really answer that. Only you can determine what sounds right for your ears. Lame answer, but that's the crux of it. Any of those type pickups are fair game to connect any way you like.

Hopefully @DDawg will chime in for that question, 'cause he's used it and some variations on like 20 basses. He's the Pro from Dover (thanks M*A*S*H) on this circuit. I'm just the Hen from Tucson LOL.

If it were me, I'd just use what pickups I have on-hand and hope I hear something I like.

 

[BassCajon]

I couldn't really answer that. Only you can determine what sounds right for your ears. Lame answer, but that's the crux of it. Any of those type pickups are fair game to connect any way you like.

Hopefully @DDawg will chime in for that question, 'cause he's used it and some variations on like 20 basses. He's the Pro from Dover (thanks M*A*S*H) on this circuit. I'm just the Hen from Tucson LOL.

If it were me, I'd just use what pickups I have on-hand and hope I hear something I like.

Thanks. I do need a set. I was considering the Bill Lawrence Wilde Holiday J45 set but they are sold out now.
As are the P/J set.
Looking forward to getting this going and not just thinking about it but yeah a new set of pickups are needed.
I appreciate your insight fig.

 

[DDawg]

I think using pickups with a lower impedance work best when switched to series. Single coils like '51 P-bass or J-bass pickups will work well.
Even better are double or stacked coil pickups with the 2 coils for each pickup switched to parallel, which cuts the impedance by about 4x vs series, or in single coil mode which cuts the impedance by about 2x, and then combined in series together. I have several basses wired like this using double coil DiMarzios, Bartolinis, Nordstrands, EMGs, etc.
You can get really creative when you use split coils. On a JP, I like to have the split P-pickup switched to parallel, then combined in series with the J-pickup. Having a split or stacked coil J-pickup adds more options.
On my Dingwall, I'm able to use 1 or 2 pickup split coils in series or parallel just for the top strings, and then in series or parallel with the other 1 or 2 pickup split coils for the bottom strings. Kind of the same thing as having 2 P-bass split coils on a bass, which we used to call "split octaves".

 

[DDawg]

Here's some pics of my series-parallel obsession:

Left homemade bass is a '54 style with 2 single coils, front pot is push-pull for neck volume and series-parallel for the 2 pickups, back concentric pot is bridge volume and tone. Middle bass is a Schecter USA Model T with Monstertone pickups, front pot is push-pull for neck volume and neck coils series-parallel, middle pot is push-pull for bridge volume and bridge pickup coil tap, back pot is push-pull for tone and series-parallel for the 2 pickups. Right bass is a Fender Mike Dirnt with P-pickup and Nordstrand Big Rig, front pot is for neck volume and neck coils series-parallel, middle pot is push-pull for bridge volume and bridge coils series-parallel, back pot is push-pull for tone and series-parallel for the 2 pickups.

Left homemade Tele bass has Nordstrand BigRig and Fender Super 66 pickups, front pot is push-pull for neck volume and neck coils series-parallel, middle pot is push-pull for bridge volume and series-parallel for the 2 pickups, back pot is tone. Middle homemade bass has Dimarzio P-pickup and Nordstrand Big Single, front pot is push-pull for neck volume and neck coils series-parallel, middle pot is push-pull for bridge volume and series-parallel for the 2 pickups, back pot is tone. Right Univox jazz bass has Fender single coils, front pot is push-pull for neck volume and series-parallel for the 2 pickups, middle pot is bridge volume and back pot is push-pull for tone and phase switching.

Left homemade fretless has Dimarzio pickups, front pot is neck volume, then a on-on switch for neck coils series-parallel, middle pot is bridge volume, then a on-on-in switch for series-parallel-front pickup only, rear pot is a tone control. Middle Yamaha fretless has EMG pickups, front pot is push-pull for neck volume and neck coils series-parallel, middle pot is push-pull for bridge volume and series-parallel for the 2 pickups, back pot is tone. Right homemade jazz bass has Benson and Tone Monster pickups, front concentric pot is volumes for 2 neck pickups, middle concentric pot is volumes for 2 bridge pickups, rear push-pull pot is tone and series-parallel for pickups in "standard" positions combined with "non-standard" pickups, then a on-on-on switch for neck pickups series-parallel or "standard" pickup only, then a on-on-on switch for bridge pickups series-parallel or "standard" pickup only.

Left is a homemade bass with Dimarzio Model One, Schaller P-bass and Fender Super 66 pickups, front pot is push-pull for neck volume and neck coils series-parallel, next pot is push-pull for mid volume and mid coils series-parallel, next pot is push-pull for bridge volume and bridge/mid pickup series-parallel, and back pot is push-pull for tone and neck pickup/bridge+mid pickup series-parallel. Middle Modulus bass has Bartolini pickups, front pot is push-pull for neck volume and neck coils series-parallel, next pot is push-pull for bridge volume and bridge coils series-parallel, next pot is push-pull for preamp mid and series-parallel for the 2 pickups, and back concentric pot is preamp bass/treble. Right Dingwall bass with stock split-pickups with 2 on-on-on switches for pickup coils series/parallel/single coil, front push-pull pot is neck volume and preamp active/passive, next push-pull pot is bridge volume and series-parallel for the 2 pickups, next concentric pot is preamp mid/frequency, and back pot is preamp bass/treble.

Left MTD bass with Bartolini double-coils, has 2 on-on-on switches for pickup coils series/parallel/single coil, top row front push-pull pot is neck volume and preamp active/passive, next push-pull pot is bridge volume and series-parallel for the 2 pickups, second row are preamp treble, mid/frequency, and bass. Middle Dingwall bass has stock pickups, front pot is neck volume and series-parallel for the 2 pickups, mid pot is bridge volume, rear pot is tone, and a switch for the Blue Cube circuit. Right Aria fretless has stock pickups, top row front push-pull pot is neck volume and preamp active/passive, next push-pull pot is bridge volume and series-parallel for the 2 pickups, second row are preamp mid/frequency, and bass/treble.

Left homemade 6-string has Bartolini double coil and Kent Armstrong stacked coil pickups, top front concentric pot is master volume/passive tone, mid pot is push-pull for neck volume and active/passive, back pot is push-pull for bridge volume and series-parallel for the 2 pickups, bottom concentric pot is preamp bass/treble, then switches for neck pickup series-parallel, bridge pickup series-parallel and phasing. Right is my next project, a recently acquired Dean 10-string. I plan to drop in some old EMG double-coil pickups, add a couple on-on-on switches for pickup coil series/parallel/single coil, a couple push-pull pots for neck volume/active-passive and bridge volume/series-parallel for the 2 pickups, and swap the preamp with a Tone Monster with a mid-sweep. I'm hoping to complete this over the Christmas holidays.

I guess this all shows that there are a lot of different options for series-parallel switching.

 

[BassCajon]

I think using pickups with a lower impedance work best when switched to series. Single coils like '51 P-bass or J-bass pickups will work well.

Thank you. I had a feeling about this while brainstorming earlier today. Considering that boost you get when in series (which i love) it sounds like it might be best to go with a lower impedence J set because im looking for it to sound great but not too boomy in series. It makes alot of sense.

Even better are double or stacked coil pickups with the 2 coils for each pickup switched to parallel, which cuts the impedance by about 4x vs series, or in single coil mode which cuts the impedance by about 2x, and then combined in series together. I have several basses wired like this using double coil DiMarzios, Bartolinis, Nordstrands, EMGs, etc.
You can get really creative when you use split coils. On a JP, I like to have the split P-pickup switched to parallel, then combined in series with the J-pickup. Having a split or stacked coil J-pickup adds more options.
On my Dingwall, I'm able to use 1 or 2 pickup split coils in series or parallel just for the top strings, and then in series or parallel with the other 1 or 2 pickup split coils for the bottom strings. Kind of the same thing as having 2 P-bass split coils on a bass, which we used to call "split octaves".

Very informative.
I'm trying to wrap my head around all of it. Thank you.
I get why a P pickup would sound better in parallel when wired in series with a J pickup. Similar (but not quite) principle to going with a lower imp J set for a nicer series mode, i gather.
So interesting.
Would love to hear audio of everything you posted above.

 

[DDawg]

With 2 pickups in series, I consider them kind of like 1 giant pickup where you get the sum of the 2 pickups, so it's louder and more bassy/boomy. In parallel, it's more about the interaction/difference between the 2 pickups, so it gets quieter and more trebly/thinner. Both have their place, so I don't know why 99% of bass manufacturers only include parallel operation for 2 pickups.
If I was building a PJ today, my first choice would be a stacked or split double-coil J-pickup with 4 wires that I could switch the coils into series or parallel mode when running in series with the P-pickup, which would also have 4 wires to be series-parallel switchable. Push-pull pots will work great for this, and offer a lot of different combinations/tones to play with.
If you go with on-on-on switches, you open up other options using only the single coils. With 2 split coil pickups, you can run the neck coil only on the lower bass strings for a deep P-bass tone, and then both pickups in parallel on the higher strings for a J-bass tone. The bass strings will be louder than the higher strings, so you have to adjust your playing style. Or, if you run the higher strings in series, they'll be louder than the bass strings. Or, you can flip it around and run 2 pickups on the bass strings and 1 pickup on the high strings. Just opens up more tone options that are fun to experiment with.

 

[BassCajon]

Woof

 

[mrperkolator]

@fig I wired up controls with your schematic (modified slightly to have bridge feed neck). I also added a tone knob to each pickup that's before the volume, and neck tone goes to neck neg instead of ground (similar to dano's circuit I believe).

Problem is.... it sounds the same no matter what I do. Caps are probably too small, and the bridge doesn't sound like a jazz bridge pickup. It sounds like a quiet neck. Wondering if you've ran across this issue...