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Double Bass Jazz vs. "smooth jazz"? How to articulate the difference?

#21
The problem isn't the music, it's the little box that a bunch of people has defined as 'jazz'. A lot of smooth jazz is just another branch of fusion. Is it straight ahead jazz? No. Is it R&B? no. Is it pop? Close but no cigar. Many of these guys are great players who appreciate the musical 'groove' as much as they do the particular complexity of the chord structure or improvisation. I think some jazz players get lost in this quest for the perfect improv line and forget that there is great music that can be made with a nice groove.
 
#22
fingers said:
I don't think swing has anything to do with it. Lots of newer jazz doesn't swing in the traditional sense and lots of smooth jazz swings in the shuffle funk sort of way.

I really think it has more to do with the roots of the music. Lots of smooth stuff to me comes out of a more r&b kind of lineage.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree - especially as a huge Stan Getz fan. I was really just trying to guess "the word."
 
#23
If I had to guess what the one word is, I'd go with "improvisation". I think harmonic complexity and fast tempos are elements that are found much more often in "real" jazz than in smooth jazz, but then what do we make of "So What", which is neither fast nor harmonically complex? I think improvisation is the distinguishing feature of real jazz; that's why a fan can have ten recordings of the same artist playing the same tune. Each performance is different. I don't think that's the case in smooth jazz.
 
#24
I Like jazz and Smooth jazz..
But for different reasons..

I love the chordal structure of old jazz.. and the improv aspect...
But The basslines don't really make me wanna move...
I feel them but,
I get more of a contemplative feeling..
It makes me think.. and keeps me guessing..

The Chord structure in smooth jazz is more pop and R&B based,
More generic and not many surprises...
But I will say that it has some of the grooviest and funky basslines.
They make me wanna move...

Now you just have to get over the cheesy production style.. lol

I don't let the other musicians or a style of music ruin a good bassline for me..
If it grooves then it grooves...
 
#28
I've just got to say this and I hope none of you interweb bass players take this the wrong way, but do you have any idea of how good you have to be to play at the level these guys are playing? These guys go into big time studios with lots of money on the line and nail their parts in this smooth fusion stuff as well as many other genres of music. They do not get red light fever in the studio like most people do. There is a reason they are the top guys. If you got to spend a day hanging with any one of them and watch what they do and how they do it, most of you would be amazed. Many of these guys are steeped in jazz tradition and play gigs on the side that are full out bop or post bop. I submit to you that Chick Corea can play anything, anytime anywhere!

I want to be very clear, Smooth jazz is not my thing. However, these players are much more than technical musicrats, they are the whole package. It's great to have an opinion but these opinions are kind of like fans having an opinion about their favorite ball player. Unless you've done what these guys do, you really don't have a clue as to what it takes to be at their level. But, of course, everyone has a right to their opinion. It just might be more productive to keep the discussion focused on the music and not the players.
 
#30
MattyBass said:
I Like jazz and Smooth jazz..
But for different reasons..

I love the chordal structure of old jazz.. and the improv aspect...
But The basslines don't really make me wanna move...
I feel them but,
I get more of a contemplative feeling..
It makes me think.. and keeps me guessing..

The Chord structure in smooth jazz is more pop and R&B based,
More generic and not many surprises...
But I will say that it has some of the grooviest and funky basslines.
They make me wanna move...

Now you just have to get over the cheesy production style.. lol

I don't let the other musicians or a style of music ruin a good bassline for me..
If it grooves then it grooves...
Click to expand...

there's plenty of "real" jazz with groovin basslines. Check out christian mcbride's funk playing with joshua redman. and Roy Hargrove's "RH Factor". some of the funkiest stuff out there, and although some may label it as smooth jazz because it leans toward hip-hop and r&b rhythms, the superb level of improvisation, composition, and musicianship coupled with the groove power make it really really killin.
 
#31
real jazz??:hiding:

there are only two kinds of music, The good music and the bad music.

It doesn´t matter if it´s jazz or R&B o whatever you want to call it or label it.

imo all the videos posted on the first page are really good music, played by over the top musicians.
 
#32
it seems like a common definition around here is "smooth jazz is the stuff i don't like" which seems pretty weak to me. i guess i don't think of it so much as a genre or style of music as a tool (the term itself) used to market and sell music with wider commercial appeal than other forms of jazz.
 
#33
Labels bite.
Except "smooth jazz", IMO.
IME, it was specifically "designed" by good studio musicians and producers for the masses. The "masses" are people who go to "see" music, as in " I went to "see" your "show" last night. Total musical confusion, IMO. Beyond sad to me.
 
#40
I dunno. The best "real" jazz has more of a sense of conversational interplay than what I hear in "smoov". If you count off the tune and the rest of the band knows EXACTLY what everybody else is going to play before you start, that's prolly NOT jazz. Sure there's arrangements blah blah blah, but at some point there should be moments of pure conversational spontaneity.
 

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