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John Paul Jones tone

#21
This came up in another thread recently. When I do early zep tunes I find that a p-bass gets me closer than a j-bass. I roll the tone off most of the way. On the mellow passages of Ramble On or songs like it, I play with my plucking hand over the bottom of the neck. I go fingerstyle on zep tunes. It's close, but I'm not nearly as picky about tone as I am about playing the part accurately.

Zep is one of those bands where I feel obligated to play the bass parts note for note. I feel the same way about Beatles songs. Other bands not so much. Not sure why, but I think it has something to do with my level of respect for the tune and the player.
 
#26
BulbousMoses said:
Interesting. Dumb question: Are you supposed to use the bass pod with your amp or just through the PA? Never used one so I have no clue..;)
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Either way. If you use it through the PA you can set it to studio (or whatever the setting is that you get both amp and cab simulation) and if you use it through your amp you should probably set it for amp, which defeats the cab sim (since you're playing it throug a cab).
 
#27
I remember reading in an article somewhere that while he used a Jazz a lot live, he used a P for recording. And when you listen to the recorded versions, that tone is definately a lot closer to a P than a J.

But I don't remember where I read that. Yet sonically, it is definately a P tone. A J, naturally, is not going to sound like the sounds on the early Zep albums.

John
 
#28
jfh2424 said:
I remember reading in an article somewhere that while he used a Jazz a lot live, he used a P for recording. And when you listen to the recorded versions, that tone is definately a lot closer to a P than a J.

But I don't remember where I read that. Yet sonically, it is definately a P tone. A J, naturally, is not going to sound like the sounds on the early Zep albums.

John
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I've never read that. That might explain why I hear my P getting closer to the recorded sound :-)

I was under the mistaken impression that he had a 50s P long BEFORE that jazz bass. I was recently schooled on that. He bought he old P some time during the tours supporting Zep II. This has absolutely no bearing on what he might have played in the studio. Just bringing up another point of discussion.

LOVE JPJ's playing, sound, arranging, the whole deal.
 
#29
On Heartbreaker he played through a cranked Leslie amp (possibly cab as well).

As far as strings, though the first two albums do sounds very much like flats, I believe they are simply old rounds with the tone rolled way off. I can achieve a VERY similar tone with my P-bass, tone rolled almost all off, and my year old swing 66s. Live stuff from these years also sound like they could be either flats or rounds with the tone rolled off, but then by 71 and the BBC sessions, it's without a doubt swing 66s and a wide open tone knob (Immigrant song and Heartbreaker), and then mixing it up between rolled down or wide open.

So, finally, I guess Swing 66s with the knob rolled down on a lot of the early stuff.

For amp: anything big, fat and warm sounding. The Acoustic 360s were SS, but tube amps will get you to exactly the same place sonically.

Most importantly though, it's his playing style, not his tone, that makes his stuff what it is. Lot's of incredible note placement. He's not just going all out all the time, he's makes very good use of space and not playing, and then playing very melodic lines.
 
#32
BigOldHarry said:
He also has vibrato on that - part of the tone. Yes, another great sound.

Looking back on Zep, Page had some great tones too - they must have had some good folks working with them to dial in those sounds...
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Played through a Leslie cabinet from what I read. And I believe that. You can really hear it on that D, A, D, A turaround of the verse back to the opening riff. Thick and pulsing.

While I love the solo, that whole part is obviously lifted from a different part of the session because the bass loses that hugely heavy tone during those sections. And you can actually hear where the cut was made.
 
#34
I'm under the impression that a lot of bass players used old strings back in the 60's and 70's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the amps didn't have tweeters. On top of all that they recorded with analog tape. I'm sure a lot of the video footage has deteriorated the audio and video fidelity. I know some roll off a lot of tone to get a "vintage" sound when in fact the sound was initially much brighter and just deteriorated with various layers of degradation.
 
#35
The Acoustic 360 had a backwards firing 18 in a folded horn cab. The "head" was only the preamp -- amp was in the bottom of the speaker cab. It was extremely loud and clean and projected, which is why so many players used it in large club and arena situations. Drawback was that you couldn't hear yourself on stage that well because all the sound was thrown out toward the audience. It had very little top end, which is why Rotos didn't have the same boing as when played through a 412 cab. As I recall, the preamp had a bright switch, bass, mid & treble, a fuzz and a useless electronic tuner that didn't really help you tune because it was continuously variable and didn't tell you what picth it produced. But it was cool to run it with the fuzz kicked in and pretend it wasa Theremin. :)

I used the 360 in the early 70s with a cover band doing Zep, Yes, Deep Purple, Moody Blues and other Brit prog stuff. For Zep, it was a '59 P bass with Roto Swing Bass, tone all the way up, and it still had no top end ;)

For Yes, it was a '72 Rick 4001 (Jetglo checkerboard binding) with Swing Bass, run stereo through the 360 and Kustom 200 guitar head running an Altec midrange horn (capacitor blocking the lows). Judging from tapes I still have of that band, the bass sounded good.

Steve Dudas (Ringo Starr) was the guitarist in that band.
 
#37
derridiandrift said:
JPJ himself dispelled that myth an interview. He's always been a rounds player (while he was with Zep)
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Over the years I've read that too. But his estimated time on when he switched to rounds has been all over the place.

But! I have the 'Song Remains the Same' movie at home, and there are closeup shots of one show where the stage lights gleen across the strings and they most certainly flats, at least on that one show.
There's another old pic of Early Zep in an old bass magazine that shows him playing with the spring mutes still installed on the Jazz.
I think he mostly used rounds, but not all the time.

But with all that said, JPJ showed everyone back then how bass is done. And he's still at it today showing everyone how it's done.
 
#39
derridiandrift said:
I've never read that. That might explain why I hear my P getting closer to the recorded sound :-)

I was under the mistaken impression that he had a 50s P long BEFORE that jazz bass. I was recently schooled on that. He bought he old P some time during the tours supporting Zep II. This has absolutely no bearing on what he might have played in the studio. Just bringing up another point of discussion.

LOVE JPJ's playing, sound, arranging, the whole deal.
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I heard that to , like a stripped natural 51 p bass i think
 
#40
Even Jamerson was being taken direct in the "snake pit" in Detroit. The B-15 was his live rig. Lots of documentation around about that.

I think, based on my ears, that it is the P, probably with rounds, direct then played with a bit. Like someone said above, the Acoustic 360 was all bottom and often muddy. Ramble on is clear as day and defined. I'm listening now and trying to see if I can isolate finger noise on the fretting hand. Good thing I still have the original vinyl.

My $.02
 

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