I find myself agreeing 100% with Johnny Long. A whole lot of people need to listen to what he says here.
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Johnny Long on playing a five.
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
I find myself agreeing 100% with Johnny Long. A whole lot of people need to listen to what he says here.
For the most part... yes. He did seem to contradicted when he said don’t buy the hype of thinking you must have a 5 string especially you Gospel players. Then right after that he says everyone should have a 5 string.
But I did agree when he stated that gospel players think you have to have a 5 and a 5 of a certain brand. And that those certain brands will
make your mistakes more noticeable.
I wanted him to elaborate on what the tonal difference is he hears in single cutaway 5’s vs standard double cutaways.
But I did agree when he stated that gospel players think you have to have a 5 and a 5 of a certain brand. And that those certain brands will
make your mistakes more noticeable.
I wanted him to elaborate on what the tonal difference is he hears in single cutaway 5’s vs standard double cutaways.
I have said for the longest that there is a whole lot of follow the leader in what brands are popular in Gospel. As others have said, Gospel is not the only style where this happens, but at least before the rise of active Jazzes, they loved the most fancy coffee table basses.
If Johnny Long had described the difference of a singlecut, he would have said very much in his unique way that may or may not be clear.
Gospel was better when the coffee table basses were the in thing.
That was more about style of music (R&B influence) instead of current Rap and African influences in new Gospel.
It was just nice to see loads of great players with top end basses like Smiths, Fodera, MTD, Pedulla etc etc.
I find Johnny super interesting and entertaining. I would love just to sit with him for an afternoon and talk with him and geek out on bass stuff.
I don’t currently own a 5 but still found this video interesting.
I don’t currently own a 5 but still found this video interesting.
I find Johnny super interesting and entertaining. I would love just to sit with him for an afternoon and talk with him and geek out on bass stuff.
I don’t currently own a 5 but still found this video interesting.
If you have not done so, check out LoWEnd Lobster’s interview of Johnny Long.
When you need a 5 you’ll know it. If your guitarist plays 5 differently tuned guitars in a single night you have no choice.
That’s what happened to me.
You have to do you and not always worry what others are doing. Their situation is not yours.
That’s what happened to me.
You have to do you and not always worry what others are doing. Their situation is not yours.
To be honest it doesn’t really matter to me what the bassist is playing , as long as it sounds good and they are in the flow instead of going against it.
Ive discovered that my ears really gravitate towards Fender tones. If it gets too processed or metallic sounding it grates on my ears. I like active to sound natural rather than color the tone too much . So I was happy to see Jazz basses used more. I liken it to hearing that great 60’s & 70’s jazz bass sounds with a low B added.
I like what the low B brings to Gospel/ Worship and theatre music when used for dramatic purposes to emphasize and embellish just at the right point in the music.
Ive discovered that my ears really gravitate towards Fender tones. If it gets too processed or metallic sounding it grates on my ears. I like active to sound natural rather than color the tone too much . So I was happy to see Jazz basses used more. I liken it to hearing that great 60’s & 70’s jazz bass sounds with a low B added.
I like what the low B brings to Gospel/ Worship and theatre music when used for dramatic purposes to emphasize and embellish just at the right point in the music.
Totally agree. In fact.... don't do what I did and even buy a 5+ string before watching this video AND trying it out on your 4 string bass:
Besides all the artistic points Johnny makes, the main technical hurdle you have to get over at the very beginning is the most boring one, a good muting technique. If you try this out on your existing 4 string, that's a $0.00 way of determining immediately if you want or need to put in the work needed to play a 5+ string before you even spend a dime on a new bass.
Like I said, I didn't do that, I just right away bought a 6 string after never having played anything but a 4 string my whole life, and was shocked at how I was going to have to completely change the way I plucked the strings before I could do even simple stuff on it.
Again, that's something that's necessary before you even consider the artistic implications (do you even need those low notes, do you know how to tastefully use them and not use them, etc).
It took me a good 2 months, literally, to switch fully to the floating thumb without an awful "gallop" on every two notes I played. That was just the bare minimum time it took me before I could even think about using a 6 string full time.
I eventually did, fortunately, and I was finally able to play 6 string full time for a number of years. But if I'd done this exercise beforehand on my 4 strings, it might have made me more deliberate and less impulsive in my decision to go to a 5+ in the first place. And maybe have saved me money, since I did eventually come back full circle to the 4 string....
So yes, learn from my mistakes - take Johnny's video to heart!
L
Besides all the artistic points Johnny makes, the main technical hurdle you have to get over at the very beginning is the most boring one, a good muting technique. If you try this out on your existing 4 string, that's a $0.00 way of determining immediately if you want or need to put in the work needed to play a 5+ string before you even spend a dime on a new bass.
Like I said, I didn't do that, I just right away bought a 6 string after never having played anything but a 4 string my whole life, and was shocked at how I was going to have to completely change the way I plucked the strings before I could do even simple stuff on it.
Again, that's something that's necessary before you even consider the artistic implications (do you even need those low notes, do you know how to tastefully use them and not use them, etc).
It took me a good 2 months, literally, to switch fully to the floating thumb without an awful "gallop" on every two notes I played. That was just the bare minimum time it took me before I could even think about using a 6 string full time.
I eventually did, fortunately, and I was finally able to play 6 string full time for a number of years. But if I'd done this exercise beforehand on my 4 strings, it might have made me more deliberate and less impulsive in my decision to go to a 5+ in the first place. And maybe have saved me money, since I did eventually come back full circle to the 4 string....
So yes, learn from my mistakes - take Johnny's video to heart!
L
Muting is one of those things that always come up with 5 and 6 string basses. I've lost count of the amount of players that I've seen here who said that they had given up on even a five string bass because they couldn't get used to the B string or they couldn't get the muting right. I don't know if it's because my first proper bass was a 35" scale 5 string, or because I've switched through four, five and six strings of many different configurations through the years, but I've never had to consciously think of my muting technique on these ERB's.
My advice for anyone looking to move to one who is - go for it and don't think too hard about muting or thumb position - it will come naturally!
My advice for anyone looking to move to one who is - go for it and don't think too hard about muting or thumb position - it will come naturally!
5 string is not necessarily about those extra low notes. It CAN be, but it is not inherently about that. One way to think about it is this: in a jazz combo context, a guitarist rarely uses the low E string. He/she generally plays ‘banjo’ chords, in order to make room for the bassist and the pianist.
What the low-B string can do for you is enable easier access to low E. Imagine never having to move your hand by the headstock, because virtually everything you need to play is available in 5th position!! Suddenly, your playing can tighten up because your movement is economized.
What the low-B string can do for you is enable easier access to low E. Imagine never having to move your hand by the headstock, because virtually everything you need to play is available in 5th position!! Suddenly, your playing can tighten up because your movement is economized.
interesting vid and informative for people like me, who have never played a 5..Yeh i know, i know.
Just never needed one, but love the sound....He's so right that ya gotta play it a good cpl months to adjust your fingering technique to get use to that low B or whatever, thinking it's the E
Just never needed one, but love the sound....He's so right that ya gotta play it a good cpl months to adjust your fingering technique to get use to that low B or whatever, thinking it's the E
We play a ton of songs in the key of D or Eb. The 5 made this worlds easier for me. Working from the roots, I got lost fast moving up, but remained grounded going down. If I were more talented, experienced, and practiced, I could pull it off with a 4. I did it early, but really switched fast for church. I can't imagine going back, though. And this isn't really even Gospel, as a genre per se more than just generically P&W.
I'll push back on this, but only just a little. Yes, playing bass is supposed to be fun, so you don't want to turn it into months of drudgery if you don't have to. I do think, though, it depends on how good or bad your existing technique is on the original 4 string (if a 4 is what you started on). It turns out that, if you don't have a good, or any, muting technique, it does cause you problems on the 4 string too. But you just might not notice it.
I've heard interviews with studio owners, producers, etc. who've complained that ringing strings with 4 string players has been a "thing" with them in their careers. And at a rate a lot higher than I would have thought - I recall one story where the guy was so bad, the recording engineer had to go to the guy, reach around to the bridge and help him mute the strings himself while the guy was playing. And that that wasn't an unusual thing for him to have to do, even with lots of 4 string players.
My personal experience was similar; after some years of playing a 6 string, I eventually went back to the 4, but I bought my floating thumb technique back with me when I did it. When I began playing some of my "old standards" I noticed how much better it all sounded when I was up on the D and G strings then before I learned the FT. All because I actually did have ringing strings on the 4 string too and I just didn't realize it until my technique was finally fixed.
So again, I still think it's a good idea to take stock of how good you're muting on your 4 string first before actually just plunking down the cash on a 5+. It's not a hard thing to assess and you can do it pretty quickly. Play a few scales going up, maybe some pentatonics that end up on the G string and pay attention to if you're actually muting the E and A when you're up there. If not, you may have a pretty frustrating experience when the 5 string shows up and you start trying to make music with it. But if you're already pretty good on the 4 with muting, it won't be a huge leap going to a 5+.
L
This is a really good point. When I play five it is mostly about having those low notes though. I suppose one could really make use of this, but I started 5 in my late 50's and it was because of written parts requiring low notes. I feel like it is a tool I take out of the case when it is needed. Otherwise I just play four. If I were younger and had more time, I might really dig into the bass 5. As it is, I have a very utilitarian view of the 5.
Yeah well.... in metal those low notes are prevalent, and they also occur frequently in ‘smooth’ jazz and modern fusion (check out the Yellowjackets and Rippingtons as examples of that). So certainly if you need them, you need them! You could even go back in time for ‘Rock On’ by David Essex (1973) to see where those low notes come in handy.
Unless you’re doing a situation where you KNOW no material requires it (say, a Stones or Who cover band), I would tend to bring an ERB of some sort to any audition nowadays along with a 4 string. Take out the four string first. Then if they say “we need lower notes” or they put sheet music in front of you that’s written below E, take out the ERB.
I think my ‘pro’ arsenal, were I still gigging, would be:
- a 4 string that gets the classic sound. It need not be a P or J, but it needs to get close enough to that sound.
- a 5 string that has a ‘custom’ vibe about it. Doesn’t need to be a $3K instrument, but it should play and sound as if one could imagine it being so.
- a 5 string fretless.
I would bring those three, along with an all-in-one effects unit such as the Boss GT-1B, to any/all auditions. Just to (ahem) cover my bases.
