Cool... the guitar player shows up and we pretend like he can't read any of the rest of the forum except this one thread.
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Just need to vent
- Thread starter Skel
- Start date
Cool... the guitar player shows up and we pretend like he can't read any of the rest of the forum except this one thread.
Yeah. Quit pretending that I can't read the rest of the forum you guys.
????? - nicely put.
Hey no problem man, I don't blame you for using all that gear. In my opinion it's a bit to much, but if you like it this way, then you use all that gear.
But you shouldn't be so hard on your bassist, he doesn't mean no harm by finding you carry to much gear.
Thanks Bart - and remember, all I'm really asking to bring extra is a Fender Deluxe Combo amp, and everybody thinks it's over the top. Don't get it, not asking anybody for help moving it, very confused.
Oh and if you threw an XLR cable to our bassist and said "give me your preamp out" (which happened the other day) he would absoutely no clue what you were talking about. I realize it's because he uses a Hartke 3500 and even I didn't know that head has no line out. Luckily our drummer had a direct box. I told the bass player that he's welcome to use my SVT-3 PRO, or my SVT-II, and he won't even respond, he couldn't care less.
I will admit that I love it when a bass player is really into their tone and stops at nothing to get it. I'm just weird like that.
Yeah, just make sure you stay away from any thread that discusses tube vs. SS, the practicality of having big amps on stage, or any of the "rig of doom" threads. I'd hate for you to find out that most of us are just as anal about our tone as you are, and that some of our rigs make yours seem like a pedal board in size and weight.
On a serious note, you do know that you messed up by coming to a bass forum to complain about your bassplayer.... right?
I hear you. I used to lug a heavy (Orange) tube head around for the sweet tone. Then I finally realized that in a cover band that isn't doing any recording, the audience doesn't care about the subtleties of tone. I dropped 20+ lbs, a whole lot of worry and got a good SS head. The audience is just as happy as it ever was, and my tone's still great (if I do say so muhself). If you're willing to haul it, though, that's cool. Whining is death. Any issues need to be openly discussed between adults and settled. FWIW our guitarist uses a line 6 combo and sounds great.
Why is everything breaking down on you? Sounds like you either don't maintain your equipment, don't care for it while in transport, or are using unreliable stuff.
As for the lighting rig... that's gravy. It adds for sure, but is not needed.
Half the time, people aren't looking at the band anyways - they're either dancing, or talking to each other, or drinking/eating/etc.
As for the amount of gear - if you're taking up too much space, or time, then it's too much to bring. If you carry your own stuff, and have a huge stage to play with, and are very efficient in your setup time, and the time it takes to change setups, then by all means, bring 3 amps and 4 guitars.
When playing a new place, I like to be prepared. I go to the place a couple days beforehand, get an idea of the sound situation so I know what gear to bring to the gig, and if they have a house PA, I take a look at it, and either figure out how to use it, or copy down the model #, and go online and download the instruction manual.
The more we play out (2-4 gigs/month on average), the more we learn/discover time saving tricks. Our singer was tasked with running all the audio cables. It was always a big mess of wires to untangle like Christmas lights. After a few shows, he went out and bought cable clamps that keep the cables nice and neat. $20 spent, and now all the cables don't get mixed up in the box, and he saves a lot of time/effort running the lines.
If you're using 2 amps and 2 guitars, there's a cool pedal that allows you to connect both guitars and amps to it, and then click to switch between them - so they stay plugged in, and you don't need to unplug stuff and everything between songs. That would save a lot of time during your performance.
As for putting your 2x12 cab on top of your 4x12... that's pretty high up - near ear level. If you're projecting in to the crowd by way of right through your singer's head - then that's a problem. You need to put the cab somewhere it won't bother everyone else in the band. If your stage setup has to carry into the crowd, then it's critical of where you place amps, etc. Otherwise, you set up a small amp as your monitor, and run your sound through the mains.
And I'll tell you what I tell my drummer (who always brings WAY too much stuff) - I would *love* to bring 3 bass heads, all eq'd differently, a bunch of different speaker cabs, a fretless, a 5-string, a 6-string, a 4-string, active, passive, and an upright to every gig - and switch between them every song to find the sound that is perfect for that song... but I don't. I choose which 2 basses to bring (1 as a backup), and choose 1 amp/cab to bring as my setup. Keeps things simple, and easier on everyone involved.
Lastly - don't forget, that you can run a guitar pedal to a PA and sound will come out. Might not be the best sound, but it will get you through a show. So, that's your backup. You don't need 2 main amps, then bring another amp as your backup. Heck, if you got 2 amps, you figured it out already - one breaks down, use the other main for the entire night.
I could rant on and on about how many guitarists I've encountered that think like you...
As for the lighting rig... that's gravy. It adds for sure, but is not needed.
Half the time, people aren't looking at the band anyways - they're either dancing, or talking to each other, or drinking/eating/etc.
As for the amount of gear - if you're taking up too much space, or time, then it's too much to bring. If you carry your own stuff, and have a huge stage to play with, and are very efficient in your setup time, and the time it takes to change setups, then by all means, bring 3 amps and 4 guitars.
When playing a new place, I like to be prepared. I go to the place a couple days beforehand, get an idea of the sound situation so I know what gear to bring to the gig, and if they have a house PA, I take a look at it, and either figure out how to use it, or copy down the model #, and go online and download the instruction manual.
The more we play out (2-4 gigs/month on average), the more we learn/discover time saving tricks. Our singer was tasked with running all the audio cables. It was always a big mess of wires to untangle like Christmas lights. After a few shows, he went out and bought cable clamps that keep the cables nice and neat. $20 spent, and now all the cables don't get mixed up in the box, and he saves a lot of time/effort running the lines.
If you're using 2 amps and 2 guitars, there's a cool pedal that allows you to connect both guitars and amps to it, and then click to switch between them - so they stay plugged in, and you don't need to unplug stuff and everything between songs. That would save a lot of time during your performance.
As for putting your 2x12 cab on top of your 4x12... that's pretty high up - near ear level. If you're projecting in to the crowd by way of right through your singer's head - then that's a problem. You need to put the cab somewhere it won't bother everyone else in the band. If your stage setup has to carry into the crowd, then it's critical of where you place amps, etc. Otherwise, you set up a small amp as your monitor, and run your sound through the mains.
And I'll tell you what I tell my drummer (who always brings WAY too much stuff) - I would *love* to bring 3 bass heads, all eq'd differently, a bunch of different speaker cabs, a fretless, a 5-string, a 6-string, a 4-string, active, passive, and an upright to every gig - and switch between them every song to find the sound that is perfect for that song... but I don't. I choose which 2 basses to bring (1 as a backup), and choose 1 amp/cab to bring as my setup. Keeps things simple, and easier on everyone involved.
Lastly - don't forget, that you can run a guitar pedal to a PA and sound will come out. Might not be the best sound, but it will get you through a show. So, that's your backup. You don't need 2 main amps, then bring another amp as your backup. Heck, if you got 2 amps, you figured it out already - one breaks down, use the other main for the entire night.
I could rant on and on about how many guitarists I've encountered that think like you...
Yeah, just make sure you stay away from any thread that discusses tube vs. SS, the practicality of having big amps on stage, or any of the "rig of doom" threads. I'd hate for you to find out that most of us are just as anal about our tone as you are, and that some of our rigs make yours seem like a pedal board in size and weight.
On a serious note, you do know that you messed up by coming to a bass forum to complain about your bassplayer.... right?
Lol. Yeah, not the smartest place to rant about my bass player.
Do I get any credit for having been a bass player and using an SVT-II with an SVT610-hlf and a Sadowsky MV4?
IME, by the time your sound gets FOH, most of (if not all) the audience will not really be able to tell the difference among all your tones.
My suggestion is to use the smallest combo possible, set it up angled back so you can hear it, get the Line 6 pod for your tone palette, and mic it through your P.A. Since you don't have a sound guy, get a wireless so you can do the sound check adjustments yourself. As for the guitars, take a couple and do the A/B switch thing. For a backup amp, run direct to the PA, if necessary.
Then you'll be able to carry one guitar on your back with a gig bag, carry the amp in one hand, second guitar in the other hand and carry your misc. in a shoulder bag. One trip LILO.
Also, if you get new equipment (lights, etc) it might be helpful to test everything at a rehearsal before a gig.
My suggestion is to use the smallest combo possible, set it up angled back so you can hear it, get the Line 6 pod for your tone palette, and mic it through your P.A. Since you don't have a sound guy, get a wireless so you can do the sound check adjustments yourself. As for the guitars, take a couple and do the A/B switch thing. For a backup amp, run direct to the PA, if necessary.
Then you'll be able to carry one guitar on your back with a gig bag, carry the amp in one hand, second guitar in the other hand and carry your misc. in a shoulder bag. One trip LILO.
Also, if you get new equipment (lights, etc) it might be helpful to test everything at a rehearsal before a gig.
You heard me. That makes me feel good - I'm not a psych major so I don't know or really care why, but you heard me.
I don't quite hear you though. That since you're in a cover band means nobody cares or understands the subleties of tone, I just disagree with that. They may not even be consciously aware of it, they just know "this band sounds really good, not sure why, don't care why, but that song sounded "righter" than the last band I heard do it, and I liked that.
I guess one fairly logical measure of whether you're thought process is okay or not, is if you aren't asked back to a club, or if you are. If we can agree that this measurement is a fairly reasonable one, then my thought process and what follows as a result of it must be working 100% correctly.
This is exactly the type of input I was looking for. Well said, intelligent, articulate, practical, and sensible. Very good, sir.
butchblack
Life is short. Do good. Find and do what you love.
I'll go along with the as long as you're hauling your own equipment, not taking up too much space on stage, or in the vehicle if you're car pooling, or taking too much time setting up or switching set ups, go for it. I do agree that you could lighten and simplify things considerably by using a little technology and lose little, if anything in tone.
You should always carry enough equipment that you're comfortable that if something goes wrong you'll still be able to play adequately, if not at your preference. I normally bring 2 basses. I currently have only 1 amp and cab. Hopefully by the end of the year or at worst when the tax return fairy comes I'll pick up serviceable spares, either another head and cab or a combo that'll take an extension speaker. I've gone to smallish cabs (avatar 112 neo) and heads (backline 600) and if I doubled that or got a backline 210 combo it would still easily fit in my car. I should buy and carry a DI box in case my amp dies. I strive for a good tone, I'm not searching after the magical perfect tone.
But it's what ever you're comfortable with. I've played with gear snobs that had to have the perfect combination and I've played with musicians with very modest set ups that sound fine. It's all what makes you happy.
You should always carry enough equipment that you're comfortable that if something goes wrong you'll still be able to play adequately, if not at your preference. I normally bring 2 basses. I currently have only 1 amp and cab. Hopefully by the end of the year or at worst when the tax return fairy comes I'll pick up serviceable spares, either another head and cab or a combo that'll take an extension speaker. I've gone to smallish cabs (avatar 112 neo) and heads (backline 600) and if I doubled that or got a backline 210 combo it would still easily fit in my car. I should buy and carry a DI box in case my amp dies. I strive for a good tone, I'm not searching after the magical perfect tone.
But it's what ever you're comfortable with. I've played with gear snobs that had to have the perfect combination and I've played with musicians with very modest set ups that sound fine. It's all what makes you happy.
In 30 years of playing I have never seen a mic cause the PA to quit working and shut off. So explain how that happened if you can.
If you could take the time to actually read the thread, and more importantly comprehend what you read, you would understand I was playing through 2 12"'s not 6. I hadn't yet found a replacement nut for the one that worked itself off the Marshall cab a few nights earlier because it was a very odd size and needed to be nylon. I made the effort by going to 3 hardware stores to find it though. So the 4X12 was a backup cab that night - if I had had to use it, it would have been open backed, and I just didn't have time to test that out thoroughly. Since I always use a stand for Fender, I just didn't realize the 2X12 cab's height would be a problem, and really it wouldn't have been a huge issue if the PA had been giving her enough monitor, even though I still think I was too loud, but it was difficult to tell in that space.
You act as if I'm ranting about the other members of the band. I'm ranting about a single person- again, try harder to comprehend what you're reading. And when did I say I was an "expert"? You said that, not me. Why did you do that?
I knew he was misunderstanding the mixer after the gig, not during it. He was doing his best to make adjustments everytime there was a complaint about the vocals.
We are ameteurs, who said we weren't? My efforts scouting the location? There's probably a course online for you called "reading comprehension" - you might try that. All of these things should have been caught before the gig. But they loved us and we were asked back. So the next best thing is to demonstrate to the vocalist that we "get it" and not tell her, but show her, tomorrow night that we know what to do now.
You must not be an amateur. You're a professional and you do this for a living, and that probably explains the disconnect or lack of communication. You are a professional, right? Just to help you comprehend, that means you make your living playing in a band, you support yourself, maybe your family, you'd just about have to be on the road all the time, and 80%of your material is original. Shoot me a link to your MySpace page so I can hear a pro's original material btw. That would be cool.
But thanks, because my bass player is seeming so much better after hearing someone like you rant, mischaracterize things, make up things I said that I didn't, exaggerate things, etc. I compare him to you, and it's very clear that I'm lucky, because probably unlike you, he complains but he doesn't quit, as I mentioned earlier (you can't comprehend much that you read, so I assume you missed that part). How long have you been in your band?
Hey also, you being so knowledgable, I posted a thread in the "Instruction" Forum looking for help with a bass line. Last time I looked 35 "bassists" had read it but nobody replied with any ideas. Seems like a lot of this gigantic community knows everything except music, which I find quite pathetic. Many of them all spend the day arguing about "tubes vs solid", "my strings are better than yours" "steak is better than chicken", and "sunburst is better than red" but very few know anything about music and it wouldn't surprise me at all if you are part of that group. You'd be happier if you stuck to knowing how many strings you have on your bass, and watching "The Food Channel", I think.
No offense man but can we leave out the generalizations? You might offend "a lot of this gigantic community"
Also regarding your other thread, I would reccomend bumping it back up to the main page as maybe all of the people who could help you to answer it were offline when you posted it and don't often wander onto the instruction forum.
About the little comparison threads on talkbass. This is a forum of discussion where people can chat in a friendly way and talk about stuff like this. Some of these threads may be rather stupid but some can turn into interesting discussions.
Again I'm not having a go at you and I'm sure you don't mean it but your tone can get quite (for lack of a better word) "nasty".
All the best man!
Also regarding your other thread, I would reccomend bumping it back up to the main page as maybe all of the people who could help you to answer it were offline when you posted it and don't often wander onto the instruction forum.
About the little comparison threads on talkbass. This is a forum of discussion where people can chat in a friendly way and talk about stuff like this. Some of these threads may be rather stupid but some can turn into interesting discussions.
Again I'm not having a go at you and I'm sure you don't mean it but your tone can get quite (for lack of a better word) "nasty".
All the best man!
