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Kappalite 3015 - to LF or not to LF?

air_leech

air_leech

Sep 1, 2000
1,542
29
Israel
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#1
hey,

I've been meaning to build a TL-606 cab for some time now and I have gathered that the Eminence Kappalite 3015 is the way to go with these cabs as a lot of 606 owners on here attest to the good results this pairing provides.
however, I'm not sure which version to go with - the LF version or the regular one.

I'd really like some input as to what results each one will yield.
basically I'm looking for organic, fat, smooth, punchy old school flavoured tone.

thanks in advance.
 
#2
I have used the 3015 with a midrange, the 3015 without a midrange, the 3015LF with a midrange and the 3015LF without a midrange. My ears tell me that the best combination is the 3015LF with a high output midrange. I also think the 3015 is the best without a midrange and that either outperforms all other similarly sized cabinets I've run across. However, all of these experiments were in the same box, the box having more than 4.5 cf internal volume. Based on what I see in WinISD, I'm planning to build my currently unused 3015 into a new box with approx. 3 cf of internal volume. I wouldn't put the 3015LF in a box that small.

Hopefully that helps some.
 
#3
Kindness said:
I have used the 3015 with a midrange, the 3015 without a midrange, the 3015LF with a midrange and the 3015LF without a midrange. My ears tell me that the best combination is the 3015LF with a high output midrange. I also think the 3015 is the best without a midrange and that either outperforms all other similarly sized cabinets I've run across. However, all of these experiments were in the same box, the box having more than 4.5 cf internal volume. Based on what I see in WinISD, I'm planning to build my currently unused 3015LF into a new box with approx. 3 cf of internal volume. I wouldn't put the 3015LF in a box that small.
Click to expand...

Agree, with a slight correction, I think you meant 3015 and not 3015LF where I bolded. I've done both in several sizes and tunings of boxes. If one is invoking "old school" or enhanced old school the 3015LF in 3.8 cf net really seems to be the best tradeoff between size and sound even for a 5-string player - with tuning between 44 and 52 Hz (higher numbers give more "old school" midbass boom but less extension). Without a doubt you need a dedicated midrange section unless you play only dub/reggae or want a similar sound.

For 3015 it indeed sits well in 3.0 cf net, with tunings between 52 and 60 Hz (the higher tunings for midbass hump are probably best if you really want to bring out the old school vibe, the lower if you want a little tighter sound). It can do without a dedicated midrange and crossover but it really earns the Enhanced moniker when one is used.

The 3015LF with a dedicated midrange in my opinion is more flexible, capable of more output, and sounds richer, more girth with more detail and punch. Superior all around, well worth the jump from 3 cf net to 3.8 cf net unless you are transportation-limited.
 
#4
I keep wondering every time it's mentioned in awe (not saying you did, but many do) what the mystique is for the TL-606 plan. Nothing especially magic about it... It's merely one size and tuning of a pretty standard approach to cab building. You you can often improve your driver match by going larger (or smaller) and adjusting the tuning.
 
#8
greenboy said:
I keep wondering every time it's mentioned in awe (not saying you did, but many do) what the mystique is for the TL-606 plan. Nothing especially magic about it... It's merely one size and tuning of a pretty standard approach to cab building. You you can often improve your driver match by going larger (or smaller) and adjusting the tuning.
Click to expand...


awe shucks ...

While TL-606 refers to a specific plan, I think it's being used or mis-used depending on your point of view to describe a style of construction, relative size and shape. For instance I'm building what I refer to as a modified TL-606 for the 3015. A little smaller and shaped to fit under an existing 2x10. Many folks can visualize the box from that descripition...
 
#10
I wouldn't do a 3015 (non-LF) because of less bottom. I would not do a single 15 by iteself, because of beaming (directional) issues.

The 15" driver with a 13.0" piston is only omni-directional up to 260 Hz. It becomes directional very quickly above that, and is fully beaming above 1040 Hz. This gives a nasty hot spot on-axis, and dead everywhere else.

Bill's O15 is a flared-vent reflex box with a mid-bass horn. The 3015LF handles the lows up to 500 Hz, and the Alpha 8MRA sealed 8" is horn-loaded above 500 Hz. A tweeter is required if you want full range above where the Alpha runs out of gas (5000 Hz). Bill says he gets about +3dB more by using a flared vent. This is free money... take it.

If you need dispersion an octave higher, you can do a pair of Delta Pro 8B (16-ohms) crossed over at 250 Hz. This avoids the directional problems of the 15, and the parallel 8B pair avoids impedance problems with passive crossovers. This driver combination will accept the full 60 volts (450w) 3015LF input power without smoking the 8Bs. This solution is more expensive and heavier than the Alpha 8MRA.
 
#11
bgavin said:
I wouldn't do a 3015 (non-LF) because of less bottom. I would not do a single 15 by iteself, because of beaming (directional) issues.

The 15" driver with a 13.0" piston is only omni-directional up to 260 Hz. It becomes directional very quickly above that, and is fully beaming above 1040 Hz. This gives a nasty hot spot on-axis, and dead everywhere else.
Click to expand...

Although the 3015 is much more directional than a 3015LF with a midrange driver, it does not fully beam at 1kHz due to much of the high frequency output coming from the dustcap. Treating a speaker as simple piston does not give an accurate picture of how the sound will actually disperse from it. Also the omnidirectionality of the speaker is dependant upon the baffle width, not the cone diameter. For bass players that aren't into the tweetery sound a simple 3015 cab can be a remarkably effective and very lightweight solution.

bgavin said:
If you need dispersion an octave higher, you can do a pair of Delta Pro 8B (16-ohms) crossed over at 250 Hz. This avoids the directional problems of the 15, and the parallel 8B pair avoids impedance problems with passive crossovers. This driver combination will accept the full 60 volts (450w) 3015LF input power without smoking the 8Bs. This solution is more expensive and heavier than the Alpha 8MRA.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what impedance problems you refer to? A crossover for a pair of Deltra Pro 8B crossed at 250Hz will not be easy to design or cheap to implement due to the crossover point being at a very non-flat part of the speakers' impedance curve and due to the large component values for this low crossover point.

Alex
 
#12
greenboy said:
I keep wondering every time it's mentioned in awe (not saying you did, but many do) what the mystique is for the TL-606 plan. Nothing especially magic about it... It's merely one size and tuning of a pretty standard approach to cab building. You you can often improve your driver match by going larger (or smaller) and adjusting the tuning.
Click to expand...


I've often wondered the same thing. The size is pretty small, I measure it at about 3.2cu.ft. unloaded. Figure driver, ports, bracing, handles, etc. and it's about 3cu.ft. even. There are some 15's that'll work in that size but adding even just another 1/2cu.ft. would make it friendly to a larger variety of drivers. I have the plans and as far as "design" goes it's built like a stick frame doghouse with the bracing in the corners where you don't need it and nothing spanning the panels where you do need it. A lot of guys seem to swear by them loaded with an EV 15L which doesn't spec out very good for a bass driver compared to what we have available nowdays.
 
#13
will33 said:
A lot of guys seem to swear by them loaded with an EV 15L which doesn't spec out very good for a bass driver compared to what we have available nowdays.
Click to expand...
+1. The TL606 was a decent enough cab for use with the EVM or DL15X, but today it's just as obsolete as the drivers it was designed for. The one good thing you can say about it is that it's better than the average 1x15, but frankly, that's not a very high bar.
 

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