Keep practicing a hard song or come back to it - How to decide

[jdarctic]

I've been playing for a year plus a couple months. I've probably done about 45 minutes a day for that year. (Actually an hour, but took a few months off). I've gotten pretty good for a beginner. I've used the app "Yousician" and kept using it, mostly because it's fun and I don't have a band, so I enjoy learning and playing lots of songs in it.

But some of the hardest songs are tribute songs to bands like Rush, Big Money, YYZ, or Tom Sawyer, etc. (actually all sorts of hard bass songs from Metal, Funk, Disco, bands like RATM, RHCP, Iron Maiden, lots of stuff).

My question is, how do you decide if a song is just too hard for your current level or whether you are not practicing correctly.

Here's how I do it. I slow the song down to 50% speed (or slower) and go up 5% each time. And if I play it well (not perfectly, but nearly), then I'll speed it up. Usually then I can see more clearly which parts I consistently can or can't do. I isolate those parts and slow them back down to 50% or slower and speed them up.

I try to check fingering and tension.

But it seems I eventually hit a brick wall and can't get beyond 50% or 80% speed or whatever. Also, after practicing a tough song for about 45 minutes, I can get tired, so when I finally seem to be ready or close to ready at 100%, I still can't play it perfectly. I get too tired. And the next day, I have to slow it down again.

The probably seems to be technically challenging songs, mostly with lots of changes and/or great speed. And sometimes just fast repetitive lines for minutes straight on end.

How do you determine your practice routine is right or wrong, so you can determine if the song might be too advanced for the moment?

(I play with 2 fingers, I can't tap, slap, yet. I don't usually use a pick).

 

[bholder]

"When you are tired, the enemy is tired."

 

[Lobster11]

How do you determine your practice routine is right or wrong, so you can determine if the song might be too advanced for the moment?

It sounds to me like your practice routine is right on. Avoid practicing anything at a faster tempo than you can play perfectly, and build up speed gradually over time. If you try to go too fast you'll make mistakes, and then you'll be practicing making mistakes. By definition, then, I would say that anything you can't play perfectly at 100% tempo is "too advanced [for you] at the moment." The question then becomes whether it so far beyond your ability at the moment that it isn't worth trying to tackle it now, or whether it feels sufficiently within reach that striving to master it now is a reasonable, achievable goal. Of course, it's up to you decide where to draw that line.

Another idea that you might want to try, particularly for passages that are repetitive but simply too fast, is to practice at 100% tempo but skip bunches of notes. Usually the problem isn't that you can't play fast enough per se, but rather that you can't maintain that speed for very long. So, try something like playing just the first bar (say, eight 8th notes) at tempo, but then lay out (or just play a single whole note or half note) for each of the next three bars; then play the next bar in full and lay out for the next three bars, etc. If you can do that perfectly, try playing two consecutive bars and laying out for two, and so forth -- gradually increasing the length of the sections you're playing in full and reducing the length of the sections you "lay out." This has the advantage of allowing you to practice at tempo, but only as much as you can do cleanly.

 

[CallMeAl]

It sounds to me like your practice routine is right on. Avoid practicing anything at a faster tempo than you can play perfectly, and build up speed gradually over time.

+1

And if I play it well (not perfectly, but nearly), then I'll speed it up

Here's my suggestion: play it perfectly, then move on to the next song. Forget about getting it up to tempo. Then in a month or so try it at tempo. You might surprise your self

 

[CallMeAl]

We play about 100 songs in my cover band. Usually nothing stumps me technically, I'm just memorizing chords, form, lyrics etc.

But then they pick Sir Duke. Man that tune is busting my chops! It was so frustrating, but I had to resign my desire to play up tempo yet. I'd play it at 80bmp, for a week, bump it up next week. I'm up to 100bmp, and can fake the 107bpm recording but it's not perfect. Stuck at 100 ATM.

But my point is it took me forgetting about the recorded tempo to progress on this song. There was too much tension in my mind and body when trying to exceed my abilities.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Break the song down into sections. Learn one section at a time. It makes life a LOT easier. Here is an example. Carry On Wayward Son is a tough song for a beginner.

The intro has an Am lick, an E lick, and a quick arpeggio run.
The verse is an Am section.
The chorus is a similar Am lick.
The bridge is tougher, but doable on it's own - two parts.
The outro is most earlier parts, with one short new part.

Instead of one intimidating song, you have 8 parts, and learning one part makes the next part easier.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Avoid practicing anything at a faster tempo than you can play perfectly, and build up speed gradually over time. If you try to go too fast you'll make mistakes, and then you'll be practicing making mistakes.

This.

It’s not about pushing your limits - instead you develop a new level of comfortable.

 

[Mushroo]

My personal practice rule:

I try to learn at least 1 song per practice session.

If I can't learn a song in 45-60 minutes, then it is too difficult for my current abilities. I choose an easier song, and make a note to come back and learn the difficult song at a later date.

When I was your level of experience (1-2 years) here are some of the bassists I studied (I'm probably showing my age here): Tina Weymouth (Talking Heads), Adam Clayton (U2), Kim Deal (Pixies), Simon Gallup (The Cure).

If you feel fatigued or tense at the end of a practice session, then you are overdoing it (and possibly risking injury). Playing the amplified electric bass should be a completely relaxed and pain-free experience.

My question to you is, how do you typically learn songs? By ear? Standard music notation? TAB?

Do you now, or have you ever in the past, taken lessons? A good teacher is the best suggestion I can give to your question, "How do you determine your practice routine is right or wrong?"

 

[JRA]

How do you determine your practice routine is right or wrong, so you can determine if the song might be too advanced for the moment?

for me: i have learned over time that i have an advantage if i let some things go --- for the moment --- and then come back to them later (a few hours, the next day, few days...). i think your practice routine is conscientious. stay on course --- some parts are just more difficult and require more time/effort/patience. good luck with the speed and those difficult parts!

 

[TOOL460002]

+1 You got the regimen down.

If you're tired using 3 fingers is a good long term investment. Definitely not gonna help short term. But if I could play YYZ a year or two in I would be over the moon. Muscle memory and endurance just take time.

If I want to max out I have to play in multi-hour chunks until I feel close to blistering or rubbing raw. Some stuff is just friggin hard. At least for me. I really gotta build it up like running.

You can also adapt certain parts to maybe give you a break here or there (like play 1/8 notes instead of 1/16th until you can power through 100%). I definitely write around stylistic changes. Doesn't work for everything though.

 

[pappabass]

Hard song? Lay it aside for a while, work on other stuff then come back to it.

 

[Wasnex]

Hard song? Lay it aside for a while, work on other stuff then come back to it.

Totally agree. If you continue working on something too long, it just becomes frustrating and you can develop mental blocks. Set it aside and your brain relaxes and continues to work the problem. Later you when you pick it up again, often you can play a little faster and cleaner.

Often when I am practicing, I will rotate through two or three challenging technical passages instead of just beating one passage to death.

Sometimes after an extended sabbatical from playing, such as a few weeks, I find my technical abilities are actually enhanced. Or if I shelve a difficult piece for an extended time and come back to it, sometimes I find it much easier to master the hard parts.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

for me: i have learned over time that i have an advantage if i let some things go --- for the moment --- and then come back to them later (a few hours, the next day, few days...). i think your practice routine is conscientious. stay on course --- some parts are just more difficult and require more time/effort/patience. good luck with the speed and those difficult parts!

Yes, it's called "incubation." Play it, leave it, come back later--you'll find you remember more than you think you do.

 

[Jackcrow]

Sometimes when I’m getting frustrated learning a song, I’ll stop trying to play it and just listen to the song or part of the song a few times. It usually helps, but some stuff is just really hard to play.

 

[thetragichero]

for me: i have learned over time that i have an advantage if i let some things go --- for the moment --- and then come back to them later (a few hours, the next day, few days...). i think your practice routine is conscientious. stay on course --- some parts are just more difficult and require more time/effort/patience. good luck with the speed and those difficult parts!

this is one of the philosophies that help me in several areas of my life: knowing when to walk away and try more later. drywall finishing, painting, electronics tinkering, learning/practicing songs, baking...

sometimes I get more out of the 'resting' than I do throwing myself headfirst into things while I'm frustrated

 

[2112]

I've been playing for a year plus a couple months. I've probably done about 45 minutes a day for that year. (Actually an hour, but took a few months off). I've gotten pretty good for a beginner. I've used the app "Yousician" and kept using it, mostly because it's fun and I don't have a band, so I enjoy learning and playing lots of songs in it.

But some of the hardest songs are tribute songs to bands like Rush, Big Money, YYZ, or Tom Sawyer, etc. (actually all sorts of hard bass songs from Metal, Funk, Disco, bands like RATM, RHCP, Iron Maiden, lots of stuff).

My question is, how do you decide if a song is just too hard for your current level or whether you are not practicing correctly.

Here's how I do it. I slow the song down to 50% speed (or slower) and go up 5% each time. And if I play it well (not perfectly, but nearly), then I'll speed it up. Usually then I can see more clearly which parts I consistently can or can't do. I isolate those parts and slow them back down to 50% or slower and speed them up.

I try to check fingering and tension.

But it seems I eventually hit a brick wall and can't get beyond 50% or 80% speed or whatever. Also, after practicing a tough song for about 45 minutes, I can get tired, so when I finally seem to be ready or close to ready at 100%, I still can't play it perfectly. I get too tired. And the next day, I have to slow it down again.

The probably seems to be technically challenging songs, mostly with lots of changes and/or great speed. And sometimes just fast repetitive lines for minutes straight on end.

How do you determine your practice routine is right or wrong, so you can determine if the song might be too advanced for the moment?

(I play with 2 fingers, I can't tap, slap, yet. I don't usually use a pick).

This is more-or-less how I go about it. I slow it down, speed it up when Im ready. All those reps help me memorize it too. Haven't been defeated by anything using this method.

 

[Acoop]

Trying to achieve something and finding the lack or skill can be frustrating which causes fatigue. ... So, I think that is your answer. When you feel and see the limitations of your ability it’s time to back off, put it down and plan for tomorrow. ... I went through the same thing 48-years ago when I decided I wanted to get serious. And it was Billy Cobhams album Spectrum that did it for me and when I could play that album and hold those grooves at album speed I knew I could play anything. Hang in there you’ll get it.

 

[Tom Bomb]

Sleep on it. You'll dream up a better way. There's no rush. Do what ^ the gurus ^ will. Perfection is the path. And make sure you understand the techniques used in each original, so you can better understand, and then address your limitations. Certain approaches may set you back, on some tunes Be patient. You'll get there.

 

[SteveCS]

It depends of you are learning to play a tune or learning to play, ie developing techniques. Learning a piece is best done, IME, by writing out the part in standard notation as you figure it out. Check you've written it right then get it down by reading back. That way you know you are learning the right thing. YMMV

 

[Slevage]

Put the song down for a while.

Practice excercises using a method book, and mix in arpeggios and scales—-
The songs will become easier.

Athletes run laps, lift weights, do calisthenics. Then move on to scrimmage games.

This method can be applied to musical instruments.