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Double Bass Keeping fingers curved in thumb position

B

bassistpatrick

Dec 18, 2006
59
0
Indianapolis
#1
How important is it to keep your fingers curved in thumb position? For a while I had a different teacher, and he was very strict about me keeping my fingers curved.
I think that I can get a better vibrato when my fingers are straight, not curved, but maybe I've been doing it so long with my fingers straight that I've gotten used to it.
So, is it important or not?
 
#2
I think proper positioning is something to strive for -- there's a reason it works better. Starting with bad technique will hold you back.

However, if along the way you need to adjust a little one way or the other to what you find more comfortable, that's perfectly alright.
 
#3
It's hard to tell from your description what you mean by "straight" and "curved." There are a few schools of thought on the matter. While some players will be very adamant about a full curve in the fingers at all times, other players (Rabbath, among many others) will occasionally collapse the last digit on their first and second fingers when in thumb position. There are valid arguments to be made for both approaches.

Perhaps if you posted some pictures of what your hand is doing we could give more specific advice.
 
#4
When playing a more technical passage in thumb position, I find it's definitely beneficial to keep your fingers curved. Having a consistent and solid hand shape is equally important. But during a more lyrical passage, collapsing your first or second finger can often make for a more singing vibrato. It's nice to be able to have the option of doing both, similarly to varying bow strokes.
 
#6
When i reached thumb position in my studies i had the same question. My teacher told me what Stuart Sankey said on the subject, something along the lines of: it doesn't matter either way, the tone is the same and that you should play how you feel is most comfortable and whatever you find to work best for you. Not sure what his thoughts were on speed/shifting, that just relates to tone, i think.

Although i believe Jeff Bradetich would say curved curved curved for all 3 fingers, never collapse them. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

With the string height i play with it's impractical to curve all 3 fingers all the time. if i try to curve all my fingers, i find i focus less on phrasing/dynamics/articulation, and more on.... curving my fingers. i am more aware of the curve when i'm playing quicker scale passages though, or a succession of really fast notes all slurred together because i find that the less of the finger you have on the string the quicker you can move around. Just my experience.

it is important to not collapse your index and middle finger to the point of being straight though. The only one you can collapse to the point of being straight is your ring finger, in my experience.

find out what works best for you.
 
#8
Andrew Grandahl said:
I'd have to disagree here. It's fine to completely collapse any finger, I do it when I need to and my teacher Jeff does it all the time.
Click to expand...

Maybe we have different definitions of collapse? im talking about perfectly straightened out, no bending of either of the knuckles on the finger.

When would you have the need to have the index and or middle finger completely straightened out like that?

To ad to the part of my last post that you quoted, im saying that it's perfectly fine to collapse one knuckle on your index and middle, but only one.
 
#12
I keep them curved as much as possible. The third finger ends up being more straight but not collapsed.
In heavy unampilifed pizz playing things can go South but in a controlled environment like the pratice room curved is the way to go. Even if you are into Rabbath - make it a clear, technical choice that you honestly feel serves the music and not just something you don't bother to learn.
Keep in mind that Rabbath is a genius: some of his techniques work well for lesser mortals, others do not!
 
#13
Meddle771 said:
Maybe we have different definitions of collapse? im talking about perfectly straightened out, no bending of either of the knuckles on the finger.

When would you have the need to have the index and or middle finger completely straightened out like that?

To ad to the part of my last post that you quoted, im saying that it's perfectly fine to collapse one knuckle on your index and middle, but only one.
Click to expand...

My apologies, I was certainly a little unclear. I think we're on the same page, I was referring to collapsing below the first knuckle, so the top part of your finger is basically parallel to the fingerboard, and the bottom half is at a 90 degree or even more angle from there, going straight down to the fingerboard. I use this option in thumb position sometimes, usually collapsing the first finger like this, because it acts as more of an anchor for your thumb and other two fingers. The collapsing puts all of the weight straight down into the fingerboard. I use this only for more technical passages in say a Bach suite, not so much for a more lyrical and jumpy passage in say a Bottesini piece. Then it's curved fingers all the way. I'd say nine times out of ten I'll have my fingers curved, but I suppose my point is just that it's good to explore both options, as I've found many advantages to being able to do both.
 
#14
Andrew Grandahl said:
My apologies, I was certainly a little unclear. I think we're on the same page, I was referring to collapsing below the first knuckle, so the top part of your finger is basically parallel to the fingerboard, and the bottom half is at a 90 degree or even more angle from there, going straight down to the fingerboard. I use this option in thumb position sometimes, usually collapsing the first finger like this, because it acts as more of an anchor for your thumb and other two fingers. The collapsing puts all of the weight straight down into the fingerboard. I use this only for more technical passages in say a Bach suite, not so much for a more lyrical and jumpy passage in say a Bottesini piece. Then it's curved fingers all the way. I'd say nine times out of ten I'll have my fingers curved, but I suppose my point is just that it's good to explore both options, as I've found many advantages to being able to do both.
Click to expand...

Sounds reasonable. I think as long as you can do it both ways and it serves the music any technique is fair game.
With the Bach that I practice it is curved fingers all the way, however.
 
#16
I am having a bit of trouble getting a smooth vibrato on the high thumb position notes. I keep my fingers curved. My teacher says my movement and hand position is good. But you see a lot of movement but don't hear much vibrato. Yesterday I watched my teacher fingers in thumb position and he is wobbling (from sort of collapsed to curved) the first knuckle when he plays vibrato.

A bit off topic but also related: anyone have any tips to get a smoother vibrato on high TP notes? I don't have lessons for 3 weeks now.
 
#17
I always thought it was an issue of injury as to why you're supposed to keep your fingers bent at all times on the bass. It was my understanding that years of pressure on the joints from keeping them straight on the fingerboard can lead to injury later in life.
 
#18
My vote is learn how to do both, I think that to have curved fingers all the time wouldn't be a good option, but one should also not play with collapsed knuckles all the time. I think the biggest problem that happens with vibrato and curved fingers, is people like to play on the tips.. where its more difficult to get a beefy vibrato. Of course there are styles that call for thin vibrato, in which situations by all means(Bach ish stuff) I would say do what is comfortable and looks good, looks a lot of the time have a correlation with what is actually good for you. Most of the time there will be no definitive choice, and it should be a mixed bag of well thought out decisions.
 

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