Kindly help me catchup 30 years.

[Jhili]

The first thing I want to say is hello! Though I have been here reading for some time, I am newly registered. Apropos reading, I think I have read too much. My brain is overloaded.
I started playing bass some thirty years ago. I did enjoy it very much, but, like many, during education there was too little time, so I stopped playing.
Fast forward thirty years.
One wise friend of mine once said - if you don't have time, look for a hobby.
And so I did now. Back to the bass, finally. I bought a new one and a small combo (Rumble 100).
I have to say that the complete "evolution" of amps, pedals and the new stuff like modellers, cabsim etc. happened without me recognising.
All of that is what I meant with brain overload. I have no oversight of all the possibilities. That's where I hope that you will join the game.
I would like to buy a bigger amp, though I can not complain about anything in particular. I don't know if it is just gear acquiring syndrome but, there you go.
Here we start with the first problem. I can't try any of them locally. I am in the EU and musically in the desert. There are a few online stores, but if you take shipping costs and potential returns into the calculation, I am pretty much limited to the big T. Long story short, whatever I order should rather be a hit
Second problem is, I can't wrap my mind around different tones. Very often, reading through the threads, I found that people experience the cabinet to be more important than the amp for your sound. But we have a billion threads about amps and barely (in relation) cabinet comparisons. Why is that? It furthermore rather irritates me that the reference to mids, highs, etc. is, well, let's say not standardised. One calls 1,2kHz highs, the next uses highs above 8kHz. Mids from 400 to 1k? So thinking what an amp with pronounced mids may sound like is more guessing than knowledge.
So what do I need? I play very soft, so some power reserve might be an advantage. I will never need more volume than a (not crazy loud) drummer will require. I like the sudden response of 10" speakers. This is more a feel thing, than actual sound. I thought about a Mesa Boogie, a Terror Bass, a Venture V7, something like that. But which cabinet? Ampeg and Mesa do have a 210. Orange only has a 410 which is, I am pretty sure, overkill. But is, for example, a Terror Bass through a VB210 a reasonable combination? Whatever info on your setup/combination you can recommend, I will be grateful.
Peter

 

[Redbrangus]

Forget about modeling, cab sims and pedals. They have nothing to do with actually playing bass. You'll recognize when the time has come for you to begin that journey, if it comes at all.

It's impossible to choose a bass cab based on the marketing blurbs -- not if 'tone' is your criteria for selection. Reviews online and on YouTube aren't much more useful; they're still just one bozo's opinion, and the audio on the videos is never anything to be relied on, IME. You really need to hear a cab if you want to be sure you'll like it.

If you like the sound on the Rumble well enough, I'd consider a Rumble 500. There are probably better sounding rigs, but without the ability to audition them, it's pretty much a roll of the dice whether or not you'd be happy with them. All I can recommend is for you to go listen to as many live shows as you can and see who has a sound you like. Cabs ARE much more important than amps to the overall sound, IMHO, but I don't want to start that discussion up myself.

And having said all that, I don't think anyone has ever been unhappy with their Subway rig.

 

[Rev_Slinky]

All I can recommend is for you to go listen to as many live shows as you can and see who has a sound you like

This is great advice. There are plenty of good options out there, but nothing beats hearing something live in a mix.

You're probably right about a 210 being perfect for your needs. I don't have a ton of experience with different 210 cabs, but you really can't go wrong with the Mesa Subway series - for cabs or for amps.

If you don't think you're going to need 800W, the Genzler Magellan 350 is a solid little amp that sounds fantastic.

 

[Bent77]

The first thing I want to say is hello! Though I have been here reading for some time, I am newly registered. Apropos reading, I think I have read too much. My brain is overloaded.
I started playing bass some thirty years ago. I did enjoy it very much, but, like many, during education there was too little time, so I stopped playing.
Fast forward thirty years.
One wise friend of mine once said - if you don't have time, look for a hobby.
And so I did now. Back to the bass, finally. I bought a new one and a small combo (Rumble 100).
I have to say that the complete "evolution" of amps, pedals and the new stuff like modellers, cabsim etc. happened without me recognising.
All of that is what I meant with brain overload. I have no oversight of all the possibilities. That's where I hope that you will join the game.
I would like to buy a bigger amp, though I can not complain about anything in particular. I don't know if it is just gear acquiring syndrome but, there you go.
Here we start with the first problem. I can't try any of them locally. I am in the EU and musically in the desert. There are a few online stores, but if you take shipping costs and potential returns into the calculation, I am pretty much limited to the big T. Long story short, whatever I order should rather be a hit
Second problem is, I can't wrap my mind around different tones. Very often, reading through the threads, I found that people experience the cabinet to be more important than the amp for your sound. But we have a billion threads about amps and barely (in relation) cabinet comparisons. Why is that? It furthermore rather irritates me that the reference to mids, highs, etc. is, well, let's say not standardised. One calls 1,2kHz highs, the next uses highs above 8kHz. Mids from 400 to 1k? So thinking what an amp with pronounced mids may sound like is more guessing than knowledge.
So what do I need? I play very soft, so some power reserve might be an advantage. I will never need more volume than a (not crazy loud) drummer will require. I like the sudden response of 10" speakers. This is more a feel thing, than actual sound. I thought about a Mesa Boogie, a Terror Bass, a Venture V7, something like that. But which cabinet? Ampeg and Mesa do have a 210. Orange only has a 410 which is, I am pretty sure, overkill. But is, for example, a Terror Bass through a VB210 a reasonable combination? Whatever info on your setup/combination you can recommend, I will be grateful.
Peter

Peter,

Are you playing with anyone else at the moment?
If you’re still in the practice at home mode, I would heed the advice above and just work your way back into bass before you fuss over anything else
If you’re accompanying some other musicians, the other items you listed are good amps

All of them have a sound that’s their signature sounds. Unfortunately you have to hear in person to get any decent feel. Online videos are almost worthless for sound

On your rumble, the 4 tone knob frequencies should come up in a search. Seems to me the high treble is very high, like possibly something you may not hear a difference

Fender uses a tone control that may have you dial the mid all the way up or close, with the bass and treble settings starting around 2

Other Amps like Ampeg you can set in the center

Take your bass and knob twiddle and listen a bit

Most of all, have fun, and welcome to TalkBass

 

[Bent77]

Also, this video here is pretty good. Added bonus, he is using the amp you have for the demonstration
I think there might be some profanity here and there, so apologize for that as needed

 

[Pdaddy1978]

Welcome back to bass playin!
This is just my 2 cents. If your just getting back to playing, you've already got a good amp with the Rumble you've got. Tone chasing is a rabbit hole. If you're playing with other guys and don't have enough volume , that's one thing. Otherwise....
Woodshed first, tone chase later.
You hang out here and the next thing you know you'll be building a 10 slot pedal board.
Good luck!

 

[Jhili]

Hi guys and thank you for the nice welcome.

I agree a hundred percent that nothing is as valuable as hearing something oneself. No matter if a bass, an amp, or a cable, etc..
I will try to see, actually just different, bands in person. But living outside the city won't make things easier. However, I will try. Shops are more difficult because once you look at their in stock items, there is almost emptiness besides 20W combos (yes, I exaggerated - but just a little - none of my "first ideas" is available).

I do watch YT etc and after eliminating "this is awesome... will change the world... you need this...", I try to compare the differences more than the actual sound. One guy plays different to me, recording, YT compression, my headphones,... there can't be any truth to that. I try to have an impression of "does this eq sound musical?". Can I see myself adjusting this way or that. Hard to describe.

Besides user experiences here and there, I do also read manuals. Features, EQ frequencies,... the few fact you can choose by.

@Redbrangus: I have considered the Rumble, but voted against it because I don't want to go the combo road again. Probably the desire for something different, because it is different, is too strong.

@REV-Slinky: Thanks, I will take a closer look at the Genzler! I am quite sure 350 would suffice.

@Bent77: At the moment I am only practicing at home (fortunately no close by neighbours). Trying to improve on technique and have fun. Though I am at the moment not searching for bandmates, I have no aversion at all against company. I think I want to play "a bit better" before joining others. I will surely never try to fill a concert hall - You are absolutely right that the Fender tone control needs a little getting used to and I did google some tips. I ended up dialling in by hearing what each knob setting does without looking at what it says.

Mesa seems to have a good reputation - well, the others too.

Each has "its" sound, but are there two that won't match? Is it for example a bad idea to try an Ampeg amp into a Mesa Cab, or a Mesa amp into the Ampeg?

Thanks again,
Peter

@Bent77: Thank you for the video. Educating and entertaining. You can't beat that.

@Pdaddy1978: Thanks you, and I am afraid that you are absolutely right about that rabbit hole.

 

[Bent77]

If you're going the route of cabs and head, you just need to be observant of the 2 - 4 - 8 - 16 rating for Ohms for each cab so that it is right with the head you are using

Most of the solid state stuff will give you no issues on 1 or 2 cabinets together
Yes, Mesa does make some fine equipment, as does Genzler, Orange, MarkBass

Be patient. Think with your ears and wallet first and desire second and you will turn out fine!

 

[Jhili]

thanks mate

 

[Boneless]

Honestly, as far as amp heads are concerned, just pick one. Any one amp will be fine. Amps these days are all at least OK. Even the Bugera stuff is well more than serviceable! Cabinets might be a bit more sensitive choice and I would go with a more reputable manufacturer, perhaps. As a rule of thumb, amps don't break¹, cabinets do. And as regards price, in a cabinet you really do get what you pay for.

¹ : they do, of course, especially if you do something "stupid" (the fact that amps are so easy to break due to user error is something that should be addressed, but very few manufacturers do). But you can expect an amp to last at least 10 years without any major issues.

 

[HolmeBass]

Honestly, you have all you really need. Play that bass, keep playing it, join in with others. Eventually the journey itself will tell you what you really need next.

If you ask around here we’ll have spent $10k of your money before the week ends.

 

[Thumpin6string]

Also, this video here is pretty good. Added bonus, he is using the amp you have for the demonstration
I think there might be some profanity here and there, so apologize for that as needed

I've been playing for over 50 years and that video is one of the most informative videos I've seen. Thanks for that.

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

Welcome to Talkbass and back to bass in general.

The Rumble 100, and really all the Rumble lineup are fine. I don't own one, but used several; I use a Fender Rumble 350 in the practice studio of a rock band that I jam with about twice a month. I have no trouble getting anything I need from it.

Just play a while. You'll figure out what you want and balance out with what you need.

 

[Wasnex]

Long story short, whatever I order should rather be a hit

Ultimately it's possible for you to buy a really great rig sight unseen, but there is no way to ensure it will meet your personal expectations for tone and feel without actually trying it for yourself.

My sad little story:
Millions of people think the Ampeg SVT and 810 is the best possible bass rig. The first rig I ever bought was a brand new SVT and 810 that had to be special ordered after doing research. Turns out I hated the tone and the rig sounded nothing like I imagined...so buying it sight-unseen was a rather expensive and unfortunate mistake.

Part of the equation is figuring out the set of features you want. This part is doable because it deals with more objective aspects of the gear. How much power do you want, what sort of tone controls do you want, do you want a built-in compressor, etc?

The problem is we all have different ideas on what sounds good and it's completely subjective. You may think the sound I like sucks , so my opinion may not be very useful to you. This means the only truly reliable way to guarantee a hit is to try amps and cabs until you find a combination that you like.

Listening to online demos and reading reviews can be useful, but they can also be misleading. They are most useful when you can review several demos and reviews from multiple sources and have to ability to differentiate between objective and subjective content.

Each has "its" sound, but are there two that won't match? Is it for example a bad idea to try an Ampeg amp into a Mesa Cab, or a Mesa amp into the Ampeg?

Mixing and matching brands is not a problem. You do have to pay a bit of attention to factor such as impedance ratings, power ratings, and how available power will be shared. A given combination might sound awesome or not. Remember it's up to you to decide.

With solid state amps you need to be concerned with the minimum impedance rating. If an amp is rated 4 ohms minimum, it's not safe to connect speakers that present a 2.67 ohm or 2 ohm load. Check the specs to see how much power the amp can make at different impedances. For example Mesa Subway 800W heads are rated 400W at 8 ohms and 800W at 4 ohms or 2 ohms. The minimum load is 2 ohms.


Tube amp expect a specific impedance. Some tube heads have a switch to change impedance and some have multiple outputs with different impedance ratings. As long as the amp see the expected load it is considered safe and the available power remains the same. For example the Orange AD200B is rated 200W at 8 ohms or 4 ohms.

Usually speakers are connected in parallel.

8+8 = 4 ohms and power is shared equally
4+4 = 2 ohms and power is shared equally.
Let's say you have two 8 ohm cabs and an amp that makes 800W at 4 ohms. At full power each cab will get 800/2 = 400W.


8+4 = 2.67 ohm and the 4 ohm cab pulls twice as much power as the 8 ohm cab
Figuring out how much power each cab is getting at 2.67 ohms is a bit more complicated. We know the 800W Mesa Subway amps make about 600W at 2.67 ohms. Divide the power by 3. 600/3 = 200W. The 4 ohm cab gets two shares: 200 x 2 = 400. The 8 ohm cab gets one share: 1 x 200 = 200W.

Amplifier power ratings are usually stated at 8, 4, and/or 2 ohms, so it may be necessary to make an educated guess on how much power will be available at 2.67 ohms.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

The first thing I want to say is hello! Though I have been here reading for some time, I am newly registered. Apropos reading, I think I have read too much. My brain is overloaded.
I started playing bass some thirty years ago. I did enjoy it very much, but, like many, during education there was too little time, so I stopped playing.
Fast forward thirty years.
One wise friend of mine once said - if you don't have time, look for a hobby.
And so I did now. Back to the bass, finally. I bought a new one and a small combo (Rumble 100).
I have to say that the complete "evolution" of amps, pedals and the new stuff like modellers, cabsim etc. happened without me recognising.
All of that is what I meant with brain overload. I have no oversight of all the possibilities. That's where I hope that you will join the game.
I would like to buy a bigger amp, though I can not complain about anything in particular. I don't know if it is just gear acquiring syndrome but, there you go.
Here we start with the first problem. I can't try any of them locally. I am in the EU and musically in the desert. There are a few online stores, but if you take shipping costs and potential returns into the calculation, I am pretty much limited to the big T. Long story short, whatever I order should rather be a hit
Second problem is, I can't wrap my mind around different tones. Very often, reading through the threads, I found that people experience the cabinet to be more important than the amp for your sound. But we have a billion threads about amps and barely (in relation) cabinet comparisons. Why is that? It furthermore rather irritates me that the reference to mids, highs, etc. is, well, let's say not standardised. One calls 1,2kHz highs, the next uses highs above 8kHz. Mids from 400 to 1k? So thinking what an amp with pronounced mids may sound like is more guessing than knowledge.
So what do I need? I play very soft, so some power reserve might be an advantage. I will never need more volume than a (not crazy loud) drummer will require. I like the sudden response of 10" speakers. This is more a feel thing, than actual sound. I thought about a Mesa Boogie, a Terror Bass, a Venture V7, something like that. But which cabinet? Ampeg and Mesa do have a 210. Orange only has a 410 which is, I am pretty sure, overkill. But is, for example, a Terror Bass through a VB210 a reasonable combination? Whatever info on your setup/combination you can recommend, I will be grateful.
Peter

I have Fender Rumble 500 combo amp which is 350 Watts. Enough clean headroom for most things. Only 38 pounds. 2X10 configuration with defeatable tweeter. Price in USD is quite reasonable $650 or so. I feel the sound of the amp is fairly neutral- Precision Basses sound like Precision Basses. Jazz Basses sound like Jazz Basses. Stingrays sound like Stingrays. It seems to be a tonally flexible unit, with onboard overdrive option if needed. I've gigged with this unit for years and it sounds great. Nobody to my knowledge has complained about my tone.

Stick with the essentials and build on your knowledge and tones if you want. The world of bass hasn't evolved so much that Precisions, Jazzes and Stingrays run relatively clean through decent amps can't get the job done in so many circumstances. Sure, there are new shiny boxes and all kinds of gear to distract and dream about, but the fundamentals are still there.

 

[Jhili]

Thanks to all of you, I greatly appreciate all your input.
I think it is true that my current amp is a good one. There is always a better one, but I do not need to hurry any decision. I can't even say why I want another / a new, it may be that feeling of having missed out on so much since C64 and Amiga were up to date.
If todays world is fully digital, my music still has gears

The question of objectively thinking about features is a good one. I am very much attracted by the Orange approach of having as little as possible. Things like a sweepable mid are nice (like I wrote in my first post, what frequency are "mids"), but not strictly necessary. It is easier to find an eq pedal. I like the sound of an amp that comes close to overdriving the signal. A real tube has its appeal here. The richness in harmonics is really nice. Mesa and Orange are both great amps. I might add that the SGT circuit is not a bad one. Especially if one, like I do, likes just that little bit. The convenience of no tube can't be denied. Whichever amp I am leaning towards, the others keep popping up. And I am still looking into others like the suggested Genzler, or GK, or so many others.

@Wasnex: A little special thank you goes your direction for taking the time to write so much, sharing your experiences and your knowledge. Though you lost me somewhere on impedances I know that I will have to pay attention to it.

Orange Terror Bass 500 W @ 4 Ohm, 250 W @ 8 Ohm
Mesa WD800 800 W @ 4 or 2 Ohm, 400 W @ 8 Ohm
Venture V7 700 W @ 4 Ohm

The Venture VB-210 handles 300W @ 8 Ohm.
Does this mean I can safely use it with the Orange, not on full power with the Mesa and not at all with the V7?

 

[Sid the Kid]

Orange Terror Bass 500 W @ 4 Ohm, 250 W @ 8 Ohm
Mesa WD800 800 W @ 4 or 2 Ohm, 400 W @ 8 Ohm
Venture V7 700 W @ 4 Ohm

The Venture VB-210 handles 300W @ 8 Ohm.
Does this mean I can safely use it with the Orange, not on full power with the Mesa and not at all with the V7?

The V7 puts out 350 at 8 ohms, so you could use it but be careful to not push the cabinet past its limits. 50w isn’t that big of an overage and headroom is nice when you play softly.

The Mesa has a switch on the back for a 4 ohm minimum or a 2 ohm minimum. When the switch is in the 2 ohm position the amp puts out 300w at 8 ohms, so it would be a perfect match or you could enjoy the extra headroom of 100w.

 

[Wasnex]

The Venture VB-210 handles 300W @ 8 Ohm.
Does this mean I can safely use it with the Orange, not on full power with the Mesa and not at all with the V7?

AFAIK Ampeg does not publish the 8 ohm power rating for the V7. Since it is rated 700W at 4 ohms, it most likely between 350W and 500W at 8 ohms.

A good rule of thumb is for the amp's power rating to be equal to or less than the speakers power rating. While you can use an amp with a higher power rating than the cab, there is increased risk of blowing the drivers. However as long as you keep the volume/power within the cab's limits, it's usually fine unless some sort of accident occurs. Doing this relies on judgement and discretion.

Something to be aware of is speaker power ratings are not standardized. Some companies just use the driver's RMS power rating, which relates to how much power the voice coil(s) can dissipate without overheating and burning out. With bass cabs you have to also be concerned with mechanical power handling below 100hz. Mechanical power handling depends on how the cab is tuned, and it is often considerably lower than the RMS power rating. So it may be possible to blow a 350W bass cab with far less than 350W if you really crank the lows.

Mesa is one of the few companies that publishes specs that detail the mechanical limits of their bass cabs. For example the Subway 210 has an RMS power rating of 500W from 50hz to 1000hz. It also has a minimum mechanical power rating of 425W at 81.3hz.

 

[Old Ozzie Guy]

Il throw another at you. An Ampeg microVR, and a Ampeg svt210. There has to be a reason 90% of utube demo's of bass guitars are through the above hd, and box.
Just a thought..
Also , the Micro VR outputs 160w into 8ohms, the svt210av is rated at 200w, and is 8ohms..

 

[JimChjones]

I think I want to play "a bit better" before joining others.

It's always good to have better technique, but be aware that playing in a band requires a whole lot of skills you aren't necessarily going to improve on with solo practice. Interacting with a drummer, or arguably more difficult band and drum machine, supporting the tune, all sorts of things. And it gets you playing things you wouldn't pick yourself which is no bad thing.

What I used to call Saturday morning guitar shop musicians, which thinking about it now translates into YouTube 'stars' are all very well, but they can't always function in an actual band. These days, round where I am anyway, there seem to be any number of little collections of musicians 'not as young as they were' with no great aspirations to play to audiences, but who just enjoy getting together to play. Hunt one out, keep it simple but solid, see how you get on. And if you find you need more chops, they'll develop far faster in a group than solo...