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Kubicki Factor Drop D Mechanism Question

S

Sherm

Jan 28, 2009
13
0
Raleigh, NC
#1
Hi all,

I'm new to these parts on many levels. I'm primarily a 6 stringer and decided to mess around on bass. For as far back as I can remember seeing one, I always said that I would get a Kubicki bass when I could afford one. Well the opportunity presented itself recently and I pulled the trigger on an '89 Factor bass in white that has turned to a creamy light yellow. The bass is in good shape as it was actually used and not stored under a bed.

I'm really digging the tones and playability of the bass but my question centers around the drop D mechanism. Out of curiosity I checked the pitch of the D and the E with the lever dissengaged/engaged. I discovered that the pitch is off when moving between the D and the E. I've messed with the intonation but to no avail I cannot get perfect pitch between the two notes. Has anyone else experienced this? Does the drop mechanism really work so that the pitch is correct between the two notes?

TIA for any info.

Sherm
 
#4
I just recently got some insight on how drop D works as far as keeping it in tune when you flip it back up.

When you flip it from D to E before you do so, grab the string and pull up off the fretboard with it slightly to put tension on the string. With the tension on it then flip it back from D to E. In most cases by doing so it retains its tuning properly. Flipping from E to D you don't need to do this but going back to E you need to.

Where did I get this?

Billy Sheehans Advanced Bass DVD and if it works for him, then it works.... ;)

Of course this is using a Hipshot D-Tuner. Im not familar with Kubicki, might be different with them.
 
#5
As someone who owned a Kubicki, I'll try to help. First off, what part of the intonation is off - are you referring to being slightly out of tune once you engage the lever? Are you referring to the intonation on the fingerboard when you have the lever disengaged (low D), versus when it is engaged? Is it out whether the lever is engaged or not? I had an old white Kubicki, which curiously enough also faded quite well into the color you are mentioning...it's a small world, isn't it?
 
#6
Kitsapbass said:
First off, what part of the intonation is off - are you referring to being slightly out of tune once you engage the lever? Are you referring to the intonation on the fingerboard when you have the lever disengaged (low D), versus when it is engaged? Is it out whether the lever is engaged or not? I had an old white Kubicki, which curiously enough also faded quite well into the color you are mentioning...it's a small world, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies all.

Kitsapbass - I can tune the E string to pitch but when I drop down to D the note is flat. Conversely I can tune to pitch in drop D but when I go back to E the note is sharp.

I've messed around with moving the bridge saddle and it helped some but it's still off. I've also tried stretching the E string before tuning to pitch to make sure that there is no play in the string.
 
#7
This is an odd problem. Two questions:

1) Is your E string intonated correctly?
2) What gauge string are you using on the E?

If your intonation is off, all bets are off. If that checks out ok, then move on two question two. The detuner makes the E by fretting the note at the 0 fret. (Never thought about it, I guess a Kubicki is just about the only bass with a -1 fret, huh?) If the string is too small, I suppose the detuner could be bending your E sharp. That actually sounds kind of like your problem, too. I don't think there is a tension adjustment for the detuner, so you may need to try a little heavier string.
 
#8
Okay...first off, how far is it off? Is it slightly off (+/- 1 or 2 cents) or OFF (+/- 5 cents off). If it's off, that may be the price you pay for the system, being that with a Hipshot I'm off about 2 cents. If it's off more than that, maybe the Buzz Feiten system for intonation...? With my old one, I used to really stretch it when I'd grab the string/action the lever to kind of, to kind of alleviate the tension while changing. But mine was off by maybe -1 cent.

PS just saw the post above me - what gauge string? The Kubicki strings recommend a .105 (their house strings are made by D'addario according to Phil when I asked him 5 years ago, maybe they've changed since)...
 
#9
It's off about 5 cents on either note. So if I tune the dropped D I'm sharp about 5 cents. If I tune to the E, then I'm flat about 5 cents on the dropped D.

Having bought the bass used and it being my first bass, I'm not sure what the string gauge is. Thanks for the tip on the gauge though. I might go ahead and spring for new strings.



Kitsapbass said:
Okay...first off, how far is it off? Is it slightly off (+/- 1 or 2 cents) or OFF (+/- 5 cents off). If it's off, that may be the price you pay for the system, being that with a Hipshot I'm off about 2 cents. If it's off more than that, maybe the Buzz Feiten system for intonation...? With my old one, I used to really stretch it when I'd grab the string/action the lever to kind of, to kind of alleviate the tension while changing. But mine was off by maybe -1 cent.

PS just saw the post above me - what gauge string? The Kubicki strings recommend a .105 (their house strings are made by D'addario according to Phil when I asked him 5 years ago, maybe they've changed since)...
Click to expand...
 
#11
I'm not familiar with the Kubicki nor have I owned one but, if their D-tuner works anything like the hipshot, this may help. (It also may help you Kitsapbass w/your tuning issues and the hipshot)
1. Tune and intonate the E string
2. Drop the lever (or hipshot) and bring it back to the "E" position
3. Check the tuning on the E string - however sharp the E is, retune it that much flat; i.e. if it's 2 cents sharp, retune it 2 cents flat and flip the lever again until the E is in tune.
4. Once the E is tuned, flip the lever to the D position and check the tuning. Make the necessary adjustments on the hipshot to w/the set screw to tune the D
Again, I don't have any experience w/the Kibicki, but this is how the Hipshot works and the E and the D are in perfect tune.
Hope this helps (somebody)
 
#13
ERMAL said:
I'm not familiar with the Kubicki nor have I owned one but, if their D-tuner works anything like the hipshot, this may help. (It also may help you Kitsapbass w/your tuning issues and the hipshot)
1. Tune and intonate the E string
2. Drop the lever (or hipshot) and bring it back to the "E" position
3. Check the tuning on the E string - however sharp the E is, retune it that much flat; i.e. if it's 2 cents sharp, retune it 2 cents flat and flip the lever again until the E is in tune.
4. Once the E is tuned, flip the lever to the D position and check the tuning. Make the necessary adjustments on the hipshot to w/the set screw to tune the D
Again, I don't have any experience w/the Kibicki, but this is how the Hipshot works and the E and the D are in perfect tune.
Hope this helps (somebody)
Click to expand...

The Kubicki D tuner is unique. The headstock has two extra frets on the E string. The bass is a 32" scale, but the E string is about 36" with the extra length on the headstock. The detuner is actually a spring loaded thumb that frets the E string at the zero fret. To drop tune, you lift the detuner, mover the string out of the way and then lower the detuner, which sits recessed in the fingerboard. It is very elegant, works well, and is extremely easy to use. It also has the advantage of allowing you to keep the same tuning - you don't have to adjust all your fingerings like you do with a hipshot.

I've used both the Kubicki and the Hipshot detuners. The Kubicki is better, but whole bass has to be built around the concept. The Hipshot just screws screws on in place of the original machine head - its got the whole "retrofit" thing happening.
 
#14
ERMAL said:
I'm not familiar with the Kubicki nor have I owned one but, if their D-tuner works anything like the hipshot, this may help. (It also may help you Kitsapbass w/your tuning issues and the hipshot)
1. Tune and intonate the E string
2. Drop the lever (or hipshot) and bring it back to the "E" position
3. Check the tuning on the E string - however sharp the E is, retune it that much flat; i.e. if it's 2 cents sharp, retune it 2 cents flat and flip the lever again until the E is in tune.
4. Once the E is tuned, flip the lever to the D position and check the tuning. Make the necessary adjustments on the hipshot to w/the set screw to tune the D
Again, I don't have any experience w/the Kibicki, but this is how the Hipshot works and the E and the D are in perfect tune.
Hope this helps (somebody)
Click to expand...

It helped me a lot! I was passing on what I saw on Sheehans DVD regarding the D Tuner but I haven't experienced one yet. I will be getting one within the month so I am also taking pointers from anyone who is experienced with them. Thanks for your post about it!!! ^_^ It helped this person at least. :p
 
#15
ERMAL said:
I'm not familiar with the Kubicki nor have I owned one but, if their D-tuner works anything like the hipshot, this may help. (It also may help you Kitsapbass w/your tuning issues and the hipshot)
1. Tune and intonate the E string
2. Drop the lever (or hipshot) and bring it back to the "E" position
3. Check the tuning on the E string - however sharp the E is, retune it that much flat; i.e. if it's 2 cents sharp, retune it 2 cents flat and flip the lever again until the E is in tune.
4. Once the E is tuned, flip the lever to the D position and check the tuning. Make the necessary adjustments on the hipshot to w/the set screw to tune the D
Again, I don't have any experience w/the Kibicki, but this is how the Hipshot works and the E and the D are in perfect tune.
Hope this helps (somebody)
Click to expand...

Actually mine isn't bad, per se...at least not near as bad as this! Mine is out by mainly +/- 2 cents, but mainly because it's old and falling apart. I just need to buy 2 new ones (one to replace the one on my Guild and one for my Tobias). Thanks though!
 
#16
ERMAL said:
I'm not familiar with the Kubicki nor have I owned one but, if their D-tuner works anything like the hipshot, this may help. (It also may help you Kitsapbass w/your tuning issues and the hipshot)
1. Tune and intonate the E string
2. Drop the lever (or hipshot) and bring it back to the "E" position
3. Check the tuning on the E string - however sharp the E is, retune it that much flat; i.e. if it's 2 cents sharp, retune it 2 cents flat and flip the lever again until the E is in tune.
4. Once the E is tuned, flip the lever to the D position and check the tuning. Make the necessary adjustments on the hipshot to w/the set screw to tune the D
Again, I don't have any experience w/the Kibicki, but this is how the Hipshot works and the E and the D are in perfect tune.
Hope this helps (somebody)
Click to expand...

The Kubicki Drop D lever is nothing like the hipshot. It doesn't normally change the intonation of the instrument.
 
#17
I've never had any problems. The Kubicki design "can't" really misstune like a hipshot can/does. I've got a hipshot on a p-bass as it's the only option for most basses, but the Kubicki system is WAY better.

I'd set the intonation up for the E, and get that exactly nailed. That way all of your neck is right, and should still be right when you drop to the D. The D _should_ then be right, but worst case it's only the D (I can't see how it could be far out if everything else is right), and the rest of the neck will still be right even with the D opened. If the D is out, I don't think there's much more you can do, but if it's still a problem I'd give Phil a call and see what he says.
 
#18
IanStephenson said:
I'd set the intonation up for the E, and get that exactly nailed. That way all of your neck is right, and should still be right when you drop to the D. The D _should_ then be right, but worst case it's only the D (I can't see how it could be far out if everything else is right), and the rest of the neck will still be right even with the D opened. If the D is out, I don't think there's much more you can do, but if it's still a problem I'd give Phil a call and see what he says.
Click to expand...

Ian,

Yes, I currently have the E string tuned up and down the neck. It's just a bummer not to have the D in tune when engaged. I did notice some wear on the "E" fret. I'm seriously considering sending my bass to Phil for the lowest reconditioning service. The bass is 20 years old afterall.

Thanks again to everyone's advice.

Sherm
 
#19
Sherm said:
Ian,

Yes, I currently have the E string tuned up and down the neck. It's just a bummer not to have the D in tune when engaged. I did notice some wear on the "E" fret. I'm seriously considering sending my bass to Phil for the lowest reconditioning service. The bass is 20 years old afterall.

Thanks again to everyone's advice.

Sherm
Click to expand...

Phil will make it like brand new. I did that with a 1990 model I bought. But the design of the drop D tuner doesn't cause the intonation problem.
 

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