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Lack of notification. Complete Surprise.

younggun

younggun

Jul 19, 2008
924
370
Horseshoe Bay, Texas
#1
I was completely surprised and astonished today when I logged into Talkbass and saw this new format. I had absolutely no idea that it was coming whatsoever. I generally only check only certain forums and PM's, so didn't see anywhere that this new format was upcoming. I suspect there are many members here in the same boat.
Its the internet, I understand change (even when I don't like it), and have since read today about the changes and the reasoning behind them, so understand why it was put in place.

But here's the thing:
I think it would have been far more constructive, and caused less consternation for the members, to have sent notification of this impending change before it happened. Instead, for many of the TB community, it was just sprung on us I suspect. I had nothing at all in my personal e-mail regarding it, and nothing in my PMs here at TB.
I've seen a lot of threads here today complaining about the new format. People are always resistive to change, but maybe some of this could have been prevented with a bit of foreknowledge?
I'm sure there are a lot of members who haven't logged in today yet, so perhaps its not to late to send a mass e-mail or PM to everyone explaining the change and its reasoning?
Also as regards this post by Paul: "If it ain't broke...Reasons for the change". Might I suggest making it a sticky at the top of all the forums for a bit. And also, in a bow to the feelings of the members, perhaps change the wording a bit. Nowhere in that post, or any other, did I see anything along the lines of "we know this is going to be a difficult transition for many of you, sorry for the inconvenience." Instead, the posts from the admins and mods seem to be a bit terse, and along the lines of "tough, this is just the way it is."
I know its been a lot of hard work for the admins to make this transition. So, I'm sure its no fun reading all the negativity from members after all the work put in...but things might go a little smoother, with less anger and hard feelings from the members, with a bit of politic explanation.
Just a suggestion.
 
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#3
Febs said:
I seem to recall that there were announcements made months ago. There were even links to a prototype of the new site where users could explore the format and features.
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Yes, I'm sure there were. But, unless you visited the specific forums with that information on it, you would never have seen it (as is my case). I've been on TB almost everyday for the last month and saw no notification...thus my suggestion for having it sent by e-mail and PM.
 
#4
Febs said:
I seem to recall that there were announcements made months ago. There were even links to a prototype of the new site where users could explore the format and features.
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yes, that is correct. I don't recall if it was a forum wide sticky, but there were links posted and a lot of people provided feedback on the new format - indeed it was that feedback that led us to add the 'TalkBass Retro' style.
 
#5
Ok. Can we please get past what I have already acknowledge and even put in my initial post...Yes, I completely understand that the change-over was posted in some place (or places) on the forums (of which the admin can't really even seem to pinpoint where though). I've acknowledge and understood that from the get-go in my original post, and then again in my next response. I agree with that 100%. Not sure if I can make that any more clear.

But what's not being acknowledge, understood or addressed about my post so far is the following two issues:
1) Not all members come to the site in the same way, nor would even think to visit forums dealing with general forum issues. This would obviously preclude their having seen the notice. I have no idea how many members that would be, but I suspect it is probably a good number. I also suspect there may be many members that haven't stopped by the site today, that will be surprised and/or annoyed in the very near future.

2) Since its the method of the admin, let me be ironically blunt: There is a tone of abruptness, and yes, even arrogance, from the mods and admins regarding this changeover in their responses and explanations of it to the members.

THOSE are the issues I am trying to provide a bit of focus and constructive criticism about. I've also offered two possible simple solutions.
1) Mass E-mail and PMs informing folks of the change (and its reasons).
2) Provide a respectful explanatory sticky in every forum regarding the reasoning for the change without the abrupt language (plus change the language a bit that's in the current explanatory post).

You might get some positive reaction from that and a whole lot less animosity. Could someone provide me some legit reasons why you wouldn't want to do that?
 
#6
I'm not big on change for the sake of change but the more I surf around on the new site, the more I see it as a huge improvement in features and functionality. It's going to take a while to get used to it, but it's growing on me. For you, all I can say is, "It is what it is." Whining about it isn't going to improve your situation.

As for reasons why you wouldn't want to do that is that you don't want whining both before and after the fact. How would your experience have been different if they had emailed you last week notifying you of the impending change? You'd be exactly where you are right now - you would not have been able to stop, delay or soften the process. You're stuck, but rage-quitting is always an option.

Anyway, here's the blunt, abrupt, arrogant and disrespectful explanation from Paul:

paul said:
Did we need to move TalkBass to new software? Yes.

To stay on the old software would have meant disaster in the long run. Vbulletin 3.6 reached its end-of-life years ago, and no patches are being developed for critical security holes found almost monthly.

Why not upgrade to VBulletin 5? Vbulletin was acquired by Internet Brands several years ago, and they fired their top talent (the ones that made VBulletin 3). VBulletin 4 was a disaster and has just recently become usable... but now it's reaching its end-of-life replaced by VBulletin 5, which is a DISASTER of a piece of code. This is not an option for TalkBass. Other big boards trying to use vbulletin 5 have met disastrous results.

XenForo is, on the other hand, exceptionally well coded, lean, mean, and optimized. In fact it's developed by the same trio that created our old VBulletin 3 (after they were fired). This decision has been 2 years in the making, and I am confident this is the correct path for TalkBass.
Click to expand...

I don't see why anyone would get butthurt over this. You may need a little skin thickener - it's not personal.
 
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#7
It is what it is, and you're not going to change it. You'll survive. ;)

Try the retro style forum look in your Preferences, it's closer to how the old site looked. I think I prefer it just because it puts a more visible divider between posts, and it's less busy visually. But honestly I can't say I even remember what the old site looked like, and I visited daily right up until it was closed for the move. :)
 
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#8
Facepalm. I really wish people reading skills were better.
Munjibunga said:
I'm not big on change for the sake of change but the more I surf around on the new site, the more I see it as a huge improvement in features and functionality. It's going to take a while to get used to it, but it's growing on me. For you, all I can say is, "It is what it is." Whining about it isn't going to improve your situation.

As for reasons why you wouldn't want to do that is that you don't want whining both before and after the fact. How would your experience have been different if they had emailed you last week notifying you of the impending change? You'd be exactly where you are right now - you would not have been able to stop, delay or soften the process. You're stuck, but rage-quitting is always an option.

Anyway, here's the blunt, abrupt, arrogant and disrespectful explanation from Paul:



I don't see why anyone would get butthurt over this. You may need a little skin thickener - it's not personal.
Click to expand...

Maybe you would do well to go back and re-read my first post, but let me clarify for you:

You did see that I linked to that exact same explanation in my post, right? (and there's also a lot more going on that just that explanation in other threads, but I don't have the time to got through and make a lot of links)

You did see that I put I understood the reasons for the change right?

Did you see anywhere in this post where I complained about any features or problems with the format? (although, there was a big problem in the classifieds, that members "whined" and "complained" about, that the admin eventually changed because of the negative feedback)

You did see that I'm not complaining that there is a change, but instead am simply pointing out that many members simply weren't informed it was coming? And that there are probably quite a few out there that still don't know.

Of the people that are here, there are many that still don't get why there was a change, I've seen lots posts of folks just pissed because they think it was an arbitrary decision. The post linked above is not quick and easy to get to or see (nor is it polite). Its pretty obvious by many responses I've seen, that some folks here think the transition could have been done better.
I'm just making a couple easy suggestions to mitigate the problems....no need to get butthurt over that, don't take it personal.
 
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#9
In Tapatalk if I search for anything all the threads are dated 01/01/1970!

Must be som impressive prescience going on if TalkBass is now collecting bass related conversations made from pre-internet days :)

Clicking on any links takes me to random threads back in the early 2,000's so the date sorting isn't working :(
 
#11
younggun said:
Facepalm. I really wish people reading skills were better.


Maybe you would do well to go back and re-read my first post, but let me clarify for you:

You did see that I linked to that exact same explanation in my post, right? (and there's also a lot more going on that just that explanation in other threads, but I don't have the time to got through and make a lot of links)

You did see that I put I understood the reasons for the change right?

Did you see anywhere in this post where I complained about any features or problems with the format? (although, there was a big problem in the classifieds, that members "whined" and "complained" about, that the admin eventually changed because of the negative feedback)

You did see that I'm not complaining that there is a change, but instead am simply pointing out that many members simply weren't informed it was coming? And that there are probably quite a few out there that still don't know.

Of the people that are here, there are many that still don't get why there was a change, I've seen lots posts of folks just pissed because they think it was an arbitrary decision. The post linked above is not quick and easy to get to or see (nor is it polite). Its pretty obvious by many responses I've seen, that some folks here think the transition could have been done better.
I'm just making a couple easy suggestions to mitigate the problems....no need to get butthurt over that, don't take it personal.
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Maybe you should read the post that you linked and I quoted. The adjectives I used as a preface to my quotation were all yours. I think Paul's decision was anything but arbitrary and his explanation was nothing but an expression of objective, rational facts. I was also unaware of the impending change and was just as surprised as you were. The difference is that I immediately understood that it was a done deal, and I didn't waste a single microsecond wringing my hands over the surprise. Not even an attosecond. My time was better spent exploring the site's new and exciting features with a sense of wonderment and joy. I guess it just gets down to personalities. The explanation offered by Paul is crystal clear to me. Maybe some other people have reading issues.
 
#14
I wonder what superlatives people use when there are bigger setbacks or issues in their lives. Or maybe this forum move is the roughest it has gotten so far, in which case I'm not sure whether I should envy or pity them.
 
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#15
i can understand folks' frustration, and i don't take them expressing it as a negative thing - it's a testament to how much they love our site that they do so, and that's a good thing. all i can say is to bear with us as we complete the changeover, and if possible help us address any issues you find by informing us of them (contact us is good, so is starting a conversation with one of the mods or admins).
 
#16
Thank you, John. I agree with the OP--I was just attached to the old site, specifically the Talkbass app on my iPhone. I deleted Facebook from my phone when I realized that I'd rather hang with the guys/gals of TB in my break time, and I was devastated when the app broke after the transition. ATTACHED, I tell you.
My only real addition to this conversation is to say that I found and installed the tapatalk app this morning, and my anxiety has dropped exponentially.
...Good morning, my name is Jeff, and I'm a talkbass addict.
 
#17
Yes, I don't see it as terribly negative if people say they don't like the new look. Some people don't paint the interior of their houses bright purple but some people do. Bright purple walls would definitely give me a headache.

There are certain e-commerce sites that I don't visit because they are so unsightly, does that make me a bad person? Does it make one a bad person or is it negative to express a like or dislike for certain music groups, songs or genres?

XenForo still looks rather 1998 to me, ok maybe 2001 I may download a new browser to see if I can get more control/adjustment over the look. Yes it takes a lot of work to keep a large website going and I do understand and appreciate that.
 
#18
Munjibunga said:
Maybe you should read the post that you linked and I quoted. The adjectives I used as a preface to my quotation were all yours. I think Paul's decision was anything but arbitrary and his explanation was nothing but an expression of objective, rational facts. I was also unaware of the impending change and was just as surprised as you were. The difference is that I immediately understood that it was a done deal, and I didn't waste a single microsecond wringing my hands over the surprise. Not even an attosecond. My time was better spent exploring the site's new and exciting features with a sense of wonderment and joy. I guess it just gets down to personalities. The explanation offered by Paul is crystal clear to me. Maybe some other people have reading issues.
Click to expand...

You're still not getting it Munji, and that's okay because its obvious you're only seeing this from your own perspective. I get that now. You also seem to be stuck on the fact that you think the anger and resentment I'm discussing are mine. I've tried to clarify for you that its not, but you don't seem to understand my point, and instead are trying to engage me in a pissing contest. So sorry man, I'm not interested in discussing it with you anymore.

john turner said:
i can understand folks' frustration, and i don't take them expressing it as a negative thing - it's a testament to how much they love our site that they do so, and that's a good thing. all i can say is to bear with us as we complete the changeover, and if possible help us address any issues you find by informing us of them (contact us is good, so is starting a conversation with one of the mods or admins).
Click to expand...

Thanks John, that is precisely the kind of message/language that would have been ideal to send out to members vie e-mail/PM, and perhaps add to a sticky in the forums with explanation of the changes. You're always going to have a segment that will be pissed no matter what (hey, its the internets right :) ). It may make the transition smoother for you guys as mods and admins though, if folks had easier access to the change reasoning info, and understood the change was needed for the forum to survive.
 
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