Lap steel players... please help.

[MrLenny1]

Nice !
They intrigue me.
As far as how to play it try Google.

 

[mexicanyella]

I'd say aside from Googling, just hit Youtube and watch some videos first. There will be some open E stuff there, some blues/rock-ish and some delta-ish. Maybe some sacred steel-styled stuff too. Just check some different video posters' styles out for starters and try to get a sense of what other people have done in that tuning (and listen to stuff in open D and open A also; they're the same set of intervals across the strings so the licks and moves interchange; just at different pitches).

One advantage to open E/D/A is that you'll also find some slide guitar materials out there, and you'll be able to transfer those moves to lap-style easily enough. There's an acoustic slide guy named Kelly Joe Phelps who's recorded in some or all of those tunings; check him out if you don't know of him.

This is in E6, not open E, but hearing Steely Dan's "Josie" on a lap steel is pretty cool:



Do you know about the mail-order instructional materials outfit called Homespun Tapes? I've gotten a few VHS and DVD items from them over the years; a Stacy Phillips dobro video, a Cindy Cashdollar C6 non-pedal steel video--she sure makes it look easy--come to mind. Well-done stuff. You have to pay for it, but what I've seen from them goes into pretty good depth and is pretty watchable. Worth it if you find one that's up your alley.

Anything you can find and sit through by Stacy Phillips and Cindy Cashdollar is going to be worth your while, even if it's not in open E. Cindy Cashdollar seems pretty capable in lots of tunings and she may have some stuff in E. I think Phillips is a dobro guy, but his technique is pretty great and he tackles some pretty challenging stuff in a tuning that doesn't have any easy minor chords in it. I haven't looked to see i he's done stuff in other tunings.

This guy Doug Beaumier I linked to in this thread is someone I've just discovered, and he's got a bunch of stuff on Youtube. Just park it in front of the computer for a few days, don't shave or bathe, get cheetos crumbs all over your pants and check a bunch of stuff out. If I come across any open E stuff in my rabbithole I'll try to do some cross-rabbithole action and post it here.

 

[mexicanyella]

Forgot to add: you'll come across references to open G tuning. Unlike open E/D/A, which have intervals of 1 5 1 3 5 1, giving you a big fat root/fifth/root power chord on the bottom and a major triad on the high strings with an additional high root...open G is tuned 5 1 5 1 3 5, or D G D G B D.

This gives you that low D fifth on the bottom and is useful for alternating root/fifth picked basslines, and you still have the major triad at the top for melody and harmony stuff...it's just shifted over one string and loses the high root. You might want to try that tuning too and see if that suits you. I did not connect with it, but it seems to suit a lot of slide people. And Keith Richards, minus one string.

 

[two fingers]

I'd say aside from Googling, just hit Youtube and watch some videos first. There will be some open E stuff there, some blues/rock-ish and some delta-ish. Maybe some sacred steel-styled stuff too. Just check some different video posters' styles out for starters and try to get a sense of what other people have done in that tuning (and listen to stuff in open D and open A also; they're the same set of intervals across the strings so the licks and moves interchange; just at different pitches).

One advantage to open E/D/A is that you'll also find some slide guitar materials out there, and you'll be able to transfer those moves to lap-style easily enough. There's an acoustic slide guy named Kelly Joe Phelps who's recorded in some or all of those tunings; check him out if you don't know of him.

This is in E6, not open E, but hearing Steely Dan's "Josie" on a lap steel is pretty cool:



Do you know about the mail-order instructional materials outfit called Homespun Tapes? I've gotten a few VHS and DVD items from them over the years; a Stacy Phillips dobro video, a Cindy Cashdollar C6 non-pedal steel video--she sure makes it look easy--come to mind. Well-done stuff. You have to pay for it, but what I've seen from them goes into pretty good depth and is pretty watchable. Worth it if you find one that's up your alley.

Anything you can find and sit through by Stacy Phillips and Cindy Cashdollar is going to be worth your while, even if it's not in open E. Cindy Cashdollar seems pretty capable in lots of tunings and she may have some stuff in E. I think Phillips is a dobro guy, but his technique is pretty great and he tackles some pretty challenging stuff in a tuning that doesn't have any easy minor chords in it. I haven't looked to see i he's done stuff in other tunings.

This guy Doug Beaumier I linked to in this thread is someone I've just discovered, and he's got a bunch of stuff on Youtube. Just park it in front of the computer for a few days, don't shave or bathe, get cheetos crumbs all over your pants and check a bunch of stuff out. If I come across any open E stuff in my rabbithole I'll try to do some cross-rabbithole action and post it here.

Hey thanks for the tips! I'm thinking the Bob Brozman set from Homespun might be a good kickoff for me. Blues might be am easier jumping off point for me. And he does open D. My lap is already in open E so maybe I can down tune and jam along to that guy.

 

[mexicanyella]

Watch some Brozman on Youtube and see if it suits you before you order. He was a VERY versatile player, but some of his skill set covered really ornamented older styles, Hawaiian and stuff, and while it was cleanly and powerfully executed, some of it was not to my taste. I have heard him doing some bluesier stuff on a National Resophonic demo CD and he was rockin out, though. Just make sure you know what you're getting, because Brozman covered a LOT of stylistic ground.

I've got a resonator-guitar CD from the Tone Poems series that has Brozman, David Grisman and Mike Auldridge doing a bunch of stuff on a PILE of drool-able old resonator guitars, and clearly Brozman could play or arrange just about anything for slide.

 

[two fingers]

Watch some Brozman on Youtube and see if it suits you before you order. He was a VERY versatile player, but some of his skill set covered really ornamented older styles, Hawaiian and stuff, and while it was cleanly and powerfully executed, some of it was not to my taste. I have heard him doing some bluesier stuff on a National Resophonic demo CD and he was rockin out, though. Just make sure you know what you're getting, because Brozman covered a LOT of stylistic ground.

I've got a resonator-guitar CD from the Tone Poems series that has Brozman, David Grisman and Mike Auldridge doing a bunch of stuff on a PILE of drool-able old resonator guitars, and clearly Brozman could play or arrange just about anything for slide.

Gotcha. I was referring specifically to his two DVD set on blues.

 

[mexicanyella]

Sounds like a plan. I think he is very conversant and articulate and knowledgeable. I've never watched one of his videos, but I know he was a great interview subject whenever I would see him in Guitar Player magazine back in the 90s. Should be a pretty good launch pad for you.

 

[mexicanyella]

This guy has a bunch of Youtube stuff in various tunings. This tune could work for you at various tempos and in open D or E.

And holy schizz, that "Josie" guy also has this...pretty impressive phrasing, sounding at times like a blues/gospel/r&b vocalist, at times like the pitch-bend wheel on a synth, at times like lead guitar...and that go-nuts-with-a-flatpick is an interesting approach.



And here's a pretty upbeat little number; check out the fast burst of hammer-on/pull-off triplets he does around 0:59. Simple little move but perfectly placed to kick the energy level in the aayyssssss.



You don't think of steel players as putting a lot of "body performance energy" when they play, but this guy probably could...sort of like Jeff Healey looked when he was really wailing.

 

[two fingers]

This guy has a bunch of Youtube stuff in various tunings. This tune could work for you at various tempos and in open D or E.

And holy schizz, that "Josie" guy also has this...pretty impressive phrasing, sounding at times like a blues/gospel/r&b vocalist, at times like the pitch-bend wheel on a synth, at times like lead guitar...and that go-nuts-with-a-flatpick is an interesting approach.



And here's a pretty upbeat little number; check out the fast burst of hammer-on/pull-off triplets he does around 0:59. Simple little move but perfectly placed to kick the energy level in the aayyssssss.



You don't think of steel players as putting a lot of "body performance energy" when they play, but this guy probably could...sort of like Jeff Healey looked when he was really wailing.

The second and third videos are the same. Was there supposed to be a third link? That fusion player is unreal!

 

[mexicanyella]

I think I fixed it.

 

[two fingers]

I think I fixed it.

You did! Thanks!

That dude is insane. Is he a feature player on any albums?

 

[mexicanyella]

I don't know...I just ran across him on youtube because you have propelled me back into lap steel mania!

I have tweaked up a Zoom B2 patch that sounds pretty good with my steel, power amp and AudioKinesis bass cab, which is fast becoming my bass, guitar and steel cab. Interestingly--to me, at least--the patch is based on the Zoom's Acoustic 360 model, with a combination of shelving EQ sloping off the lows below 350 Hz (!) and boosting the highs slightly above 1.2 kHz. The Acoustic 360 model comes across as pretty clean, but with what sounds to me like a slight solid-state "gritchiness" that seems to sound nice with the EQ set that way. That B11 tuning's low B string takes some EQ cutting to keep from being a pretty heavy drone. The Acoustic model is not super-bright, which seems to work well with this instrument and this tuning. What I thought of as "highs" before must really be mids/upper mids. Adding a bunch of real highs sounds kind of like slide clatter in my ear canals.

As I've tweaked this over the past day or two, I've gone back and forth between the Zoom/Peavey/AudioKinesis rig and my Peavey Special 150 guitar combo, and I've noticed that the rig doesn't seem quite as loud as the Peavey at guitar and steel frequencies, but the additional EQ possibilities help in nailing that midrange presence/clarity thing for weird, close-interval sustainy steel chords. The Peavey smacks you around the room but it's messier.

 

[Rich Fiscus]

Now you guys have done it! I go looking for one good picture of the Melobar our steel player has, and I end up spending 2 hours tracking down the history of the company.

It seems only fair to share the love, so here's the website that covers it in detail. Other than the plans for this beast...

...there's also an interesting story about the first instruments they built, which they eventually decided not to sell after Ry Cooder tried one out and said the string spacing was too tight. It's not clear exactly what they did with them, but they apparently got into the hands of some players who loved them, but had no idea what they were. I'm guessing they ended up with somebody from Mosrite (who made the bodies), based on this particular anecdote.

This history needs to be straightened out...Yes Jimmy Page has a Melobar and has played it. And this is how I (Ted Smith) became involved:
In the mid 80's I walked in to the house late at night to find Dad in his PJ's talking on the phone. He handed it to me and said, "some player with questions, I've talked to him before and can't help him." Dad stumbled half asleep down the hall and I called after him, "well, what's his name?" Dad shrugged, "some guy with a rock band, Jimmy Page."

You can tell dad was never impressed with rock and roll. I stood staring at the phone not believing it. I put it to my ear and this very English accent was going on and on about some effects box he wanted. It took about five minutes to realize, this really was Page.

It was a tough conversation because he kept asking for some kind of effects box that came with Melobar. I kept telling him there wasn't any effects box. I asked him what Melobar he had and he wouldn't tell me. Finally it ended with me saying I'd look around.

He called back some time later; again looking for this effects box. This time Jimmy opened up a bit and tentatively admitted it was a Mosrite Melobar. I knew we had some Mosrite Fuzzrite boxes and sent him one. He called and said that wasn't it. Finally the story came out...The guitar had belonged to Brian Jones with the Stones. Brian had used the guitar on a sound track for a girl friend with some kind of effects box. He loaned the guitar to Jimmy just before he died. Jimmy didn't want to give the guitar back to anyone and really wanted the effects box. We never did figure out what the box was but it opened an amazing thought that Melobar may have even been on the early Stones albums.

No one knows how Brian got the Melobar and the mystery of the effects box died with him.

Other than the amusing bit of trivia about Jimmy Page stealing the guitar from Brian Jones' estate, I'm guessing JPJ must have played it a time or 2, because he had Hugh Manson make him this.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Those Melobars were pretty cool. Made right around the corner from where I used to live. In fact, I had a neighbor about 15 years ago who had a body shop in the back where we hung out. He used to have a pro shop in the 70’s and painted parts for Walt.

I still have one of their lap steels. Used to have one of the upholstered explorer shaped 8 strings. Shoulda kept it but, at the time you could get any Melobar stuff dirt cheap in the area, probably because they were local, and sell for a lot more elsewhere in the country.

 

[Rich Fiscus]

Those Melobars were pretty cool. Made right around the corner from where I used to live. In fact, I had a neighbor about 15 years ago who had a body shop in the back where we hung out. He used to have a pro shop in the 70’s and painted parts for Walt.

I still have one of their lap steels. Used to have one of the upholstered explorer shaped 8 strings. Shoulda kept it but, at the time you could get any Melobar stuff dirt cheap in the area, probably because they were local, and sell for a lot more elsewhere in the country.

That makes sense. Walt was a mad genius inventor, but a horrible businessman. He was also apparently stuck in the past, and more than a little obsessed with his vision of the Melobar as a completely new kind of parlor instrument. I don't believe they even made a 6 string until Walt died. It was called the Skreemr because Ted Smith thought his dad would scream if he had seen it.