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Lead singer rehearsal issues (long)

#61
txbasschik said:
Shoot, even if another band member is female, the singer gets most of the attention. I've had to learn to live with that one. I'm a small woman. She's a big, busty blonde with a really loud voice. So...(wish we had a shrug icon...LOL!).

I see your point.

With males, the attention factor seems to have more to do with how charismatic they are, and how big their ego is. With women, they do automatically get more attention, charismatic/egotistical or not. Both genders, however, are just as likely to capitalize on that extra attention...perhaps in different ways.

Female singers who don't play an instrument are often really awful about not carrying their weight when it comes to equipment, that's for sure.

Cherie
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Yeah I gotcha, there's plenty of male singers too that eat up all the attention as well(especially if the genre was "hair metal" lol). But the thing is that it's easier to market a band with a female lead singer in pop music or billboard music sometimes than males. But honestly my comment is from a male perspective so there is no way we could all come to an agreement or rule out that somebody is speaking out of mild subconscious prejudice.

But for the record, there are plenty of women I wouldn't mind having as a singer (Pat Benetar being one of them lol)


I'm a small woman
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I'm a short guy....smallest in my band lol. So I feel for ya! :)
 
#62
Mr_Sore_Fingerz said:
Yeah I gotcha, there's plenty of male singers too that eat up all the attention as well(especially if the genre was "hair metal" lol). But the thing is that it's easier to market a band with a female lead singer in pop music or billboard music sometimes than males. But honestly my comment is from a male perspective so there is no way we could all come to an agreement or rule out that somebody is speaking out of mild subconscious prejudice.

But for the record, there are plenty of women I wouldn't mind having as a singer (Pat Benetar being one of them lol)




I'm a short guy....smallest in my band lol. So I feel for ya! :)
Click to expand...

Yeah...true, it is easier to market women in pop/Billboard-type genres. Country, too. I think its maybe more difficult in rock.

Yep...sometimes its hard being the band's leprechaun. Our singer is so eye-catching and statuesque, and drummer and I are both small people. We jokingly call ourselves That Other Chick & The Fleshy Blob. LOL! Our harmonica player is really sweet...he makes sure I get out in front of him. "Baby, the crowd would rather see a little bitty woman playing bass than a big ol' fat guy playing harp and sweatin'. Put it on out there, girl!"

I love that man, I tell you what!

Cherie :bassist:
 
#63
QORC said:
that's so true. I was with 2 bands with female singers and neither of them lifted a finger to either load or unload.

One routinely left immediately after the gig, saying "I've got kids at home"


um.....honey? So do I, and I'm here until the last piece is put on the truck
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Yeah, that attitude bugs the heck out of me. Our singer pulls her weight, but in my old female band, one of the women was sooooo much the diva singer and wouldn't carry anything. She wanted us all to pitch in for two roadies, but the rest of us carried/set up our gear, and refused to pay. We made her pay her own roadies out of her own pocket...we didn't need any, thanks!

To her credit, and the rest of us in that band, once we learned a song, we got rid of the stage chart/lyric sheet for it. We worked hard not to depend on sheets. Those girls in the OP's post ought to take a page from that book. It just looks bad for them to be constantly using sheets, and cuts down on musical expression, etc. Noooooo bueno!

Cherie


Cherie
 
#65
Well, just to give a quick update, we had practice yesterday, and while things were a bit smoother in some areas, we're still having a lot of the same problems. Especially with the more diva-ish singer.

After rehearsal, we sat down as a band, and the guitarist told them "My big concern is that you two aren't tight together at all." They just didn't get it. The one immediately got defensive and said "Which song? Name one?" He said, "Well, most of them, really." I was pretty blunt and said "Look, I've been playing in bands for almost 10 years, the guitarist has been playing for about 30 years, and we both know it's not stage-ready yet." I also told them "We all make mistakes...the difference is that if I or the guitarist screws up, we can usually cover for it and keep the song going...if you guys start singing over a guitar solo or come in at the wrong time on a chorus, it causes a trainwreck." All of which had happened in various songs during practice. They just didn't seem willing or able to recognize their mistakes.

Well, basically the diva-ish one kept being more and more defensive, and ended up leaving in a huff. What irritated me was that our keyboard player kept trying to make a point, but she kept interrupting him, so he ended up leaving rather annoyed. The other one, slightly more reasonable, seems to get it, but not completely.

It's just frustrating. We kept telling them "Look, we're trying to help you two out," but they just kept taking it as some kind of personal attack. One of them said I was being condescending when I kept bringing things up. I can honestly say I wasn't at all...I'm pretty much an extremely easy going person. They also try to turn it into a "you versus us" argument, which isn't what this is supposed to be about.

Supposedly they're going to get together before practice next week to work on the vocals, but we'll see. We're determined to start gigging out in early May regardless. The guitarist is also bringing over the soundman next Saturday to bring an outside perspective. We'll see how they take it, I guess.
 
#68
invader3k said:
Well, just to give a quick update, we had practice yesterday, and while things were a bit smoother in some areas, we're still having a lot of the same problems. Especially with the more diva-ish singer.

After rehearsal, we sat down as a band, and the guitarist told them "My big concern is that you two aren't tight together at all." They just didn't get it. The one immediately got defensive and said "Which song? Name one?" He said, "Well, most of them, really." I was pretty blunt and said "Look, I've been playing in bands for almost 10 years, the guitarist has been playing for about 30 years, and we both know it's not stage-ready yet." I also told them "We all make mistakes...the difference is that if I or the guitarist screws up, we can usually cover for it and keep the song going...if you guys start singing over a guitar solo or come in at the wrong time on a chorus, it causes a trainwreck." All of which had happened in various songs during practice. They just didn't seem willing or able to recognize their mistakes.

Well, basically the diva-ish one kept being more and more defensive, and ended up leaving in a huff. What irritated me was that our keyboard player kept trying to make a point, but she kept interrupting him, so he ended up leaving rather annoyed. The other one, slightly more reasonable, seems to get it, but not completely.

It's just frustrating. We kept telling them "Look, we're trying to help you two out," but they just kept taking it as some kind of personal attack. One of them said I was being condescending when I kept bringing things up. I can honestly say I wasn't at all...I'm pretty much an extremely easy going person. They also try to turn it into a "you versus us" argument, which isn't what this is supposed to be about.

Supposedly they're going to get together before practice next week to work on the vocals, but we'll see. We're determined to start gigging out in early May regardless. The guitarist is also bringing over the soundman next Saturday to bring an outside perspective. We'll see how they take it, I guess.
Click to expand...

How long have these women been singing with bands?

Reason I ask is that this kind of behavior is something that singers do when they don't know what they're doing. If they can't hear that they are coming in at the wrong time, singing over a guitar lead, or even whether their vocals are in harmony, they're either woefully inexperienced, or willfully ignorant.

Did they learn to sing at karaoke? A lot of karaoke singers make errors like this. That's why I hate it when they show up for jams. They mess things up, badly, because they can't sing if they don't have lyrics and the song isn't played exactly like the karaoke recording. They have no ears.

Lay it out, hon. You have a diva infestation.

Tell them you're booking gigs, and that the band expects them to 1) know their lyrics from memory, 2) practice together and individually outside of band practice, and 3) know when to come in, what a guitar solo is...ear training.

If they cannot or will not do these things and that lack is reflected in their gig performances, tell them they can expect to be replaced by singers who will work at it and behave professionally.

Period.

They are behaving in a very immature fashion, so treat them like kids. Give them consequences.

It worked for our diva. Now, you have to be willing to maintain this...they'll backslide, sure as I know my own name. But it does work.

GAWD, we need a "shrug" icon!

Cherie
 
#70
yeah for me for the most part the singer either has to be the most experienced in the group, or everyone else has to sing enough to keep them coming along slowly. I have band and we're just a four piece keys bass drums and guitar and then we switch out singers we work with duets females males kids all kinds of different singers. and we all sing and do four part harmonies. And I can think of one who does her 7 songs really well and then then the next four hours there is always something wrong with her monitor or she decides there are 10 more choruses on the end then there were are rehearsal and we catch her because we play together so much but she definitley has little panic attacks or something of that nature. As far as the words on stage go I'll admit that I have. But I also have a repetoire of over 1000 songs and we get paid requests and work for tips a lot so I've reached into that book and pulled out a 300 dollar song before. But for the most part I can do 200 without looking so take it for what you will I don't have a problem with cheat sheets but, they're cheat sheets not road maps. And I don't think females are anymore difficult then male singers but if someone isn't bringing their A game.....well just ask Grady Little when pedro didn't bring his A game he should've been pulled leaving him in just hurt the team. and music is a team sport. And there is no eye line in team.
 
#71
txbasschik said:
GAWD, we need a "shrug" icon!

Cherie
Click to expand...

This one works for me.
dunno.gif


I keep her in my photobucket if you need to borrow it.
 
#74
invader3k said:
Well, just to give a quick update, we had practice yesterday, and while things were a bit smoother in some areas, we're still having a lot of the same problems. Especially with the more diva-ish singer.

After rehearsal, we sat down as a band, and the guitarist told them "My big concern is that you two aren't tight together at all." They just didn't get it. The one immediately got defensive and said "Which song? Name one?" He said, "Well, most of them, really." I was pretty blunt and said "Look, I've been playing in bands for almost 10 years, the guitarist has been playing for about 30 years, and we both know it's not stage-ready yet." I also told them "We all make mistakes...the difference is that if I or the guitarist screws up, we can usually cover for it and keep the song going...if you guys start singing over a guitar solo or come in at the wrong time on a chorus, it causes a trainwreck." All of which had happened in various songs during practice. They just didn't seem willing or able to recognize their mistakes.

Well, basically the diva-ish one kept being more and more defensive, and ended up leaving in a huff. What irritated me was that our keyboard player kept trying to make a point, but she kept interrupting him, so he ended up leaving rather annoyed. The other one, slightly more reasonable, seems to get it, but not completely.

It's just frustrating. We kept telling them "Look, we're trying to help you two out," but they just kept taking it as some kind of personal attack. One of them said I was being condescending when I kept bringing things up. I can honestly say I wasn't at all...I'm pretty much an extremely easy going person. They also try to turn it into a "you versus us" argument, which isn't what this is supposed to be about.

Supposedly they're going to get together before practice next week to work on the vocals, but we'll see. We're determined to start gigging out in early May regardless. The guitarist is also bringing over the soundman next Saturday to bring an outside perspective. We'll see how they take it, I guess.
Click to expand...

i am having serious deja vu right now.
 
#75
txbasschik said:
How long have these women been singing with bands?

Cherie
Click to expand...

Oh, I thought I made it clear, they're total noobs. They've both been in the band several months, but that's it. The one who's doing a bit better apparently has played keyboard, so she seems to "get it," though she still screws up a lot. The more diva-ish one has never been in any sort of band before. Neither has fronted a band before or played in a band live.

Again, I'm the newest one here, so I didn't decide to bring them in. Like someone else said earlier in this thread, I think the mistake was that the guitarist took these two women with no experience and made them full members of the band, without any apparent sort of "trial period." I think the band has a ton of potential. Musically, we're ready to go. It's just the damn vocals that need work, and if they can't admit they have a problem, then it's hard to get them to fix it.

If they try and pull the defensive bitchy attitude with me again when I'm trying to help, I'm going to tell them off. I'm not their ex-boyfriend or something, so that crap isn't going to work on me.
 
#77
invader3k said:
Been here, done that, eh?
Click to expand...

more like "is this live or is this memorex ?"

subtract one diva.
band doing bluesy covers plus
add in 10 BLUESY originals that "she" wrote
and
consider that we had recorded these tunes about a month or 2 prior and that she routinely missed the one after the turnaround of standard 12 bar :confused::eek:

omg lol im actually getting stressed out dredging up this memory.

i was hired gun, she was a referral from a producer..
i tried hard to "work it out" as a result but inevitably I told her she sucked(a very mean thing to do even if its true )
moments later the whole band quit. producer gave me more referrals anyway ;)


needless to say, i feel your pain bro.
 
#79
I agree that having a practice gig in front of friends will help. But another thing that might help is the proper motivation. Consider this: of course "Volcano Girls" is a cute and catchy song that lots of people will recognize. But it's also a poignant examination of some of the sleazier sides of feminine sexuality. "Wind us up and watch us blow" is just the tip of the iceberg. Do your singers know this? If they're just going through the songs like it's work, they're not going to take it seriously. Maybe if they realize what they're singing, and can relate to it on some level, they will be inspired to work harder, and even perform the song better. Nina Gordon and Louise Post certainly knew what they were singing about, and that knowledge alone is responsible for the viscerality of their performances.

So I suggest hitting a bar and having some drinks and then talking about what the songs are really about. Doing that will probably open them up about what they want out of the band and set up a situation where you can all talk without getting too serious and pissing each other off, so that would be good too.

Best of luck.
 
#80
worker201 said:
I agree that having a practice gig in front of friends will help. But another thing that might help is the proper motivation. Consider this: of course "Volcano Girls" is a cute and catchy song that lots of people will recognize. But it's also a poignant examination of some of the sleazier sides of feminine sexuality. "Wind us up and watch us blow" is just the tip of the iceberg. Do your singers know this? If they're just going through the songs like it's work, they're not going to take it seriously. Maybe if they realize what they're singing, and can relate to it on some level, they will be inspired to work harder, and even perform the song better. Nina Gordon and Louise Post certainly knew what they were singing about, and that knowledge alone is responsible for the viscerality of their performances.

So I suggest hitting a bar and having some drinks and then talking about what the songs are really about. Doing that will probably open them up about what they want out of the band and set up a situation where you can all talk without getting too serious and pissing each other off, so that would be good too.

Best of luck.
Click to expand...

Seems to me that if a singer is good enough to sing with a band, he or she should not *have* to be told to examine the meaning of the lyrics. If they did the necessary preparation, they would know.

If I'm asked to prepare a lead vocal for our Wednesday jam, not even a regular gig, I listen to the song closely, print the lyrics and read them, and practice the song so that I can add the proper expression. I can get a song halfway memorized in one day, while working up ten other tunes to play on bass. Within a week or so, I know the song to where I don't need to depend on the sheet.

I don't front a band. I'm a bass player. Now, why can't those chicks do that? Seems to me they are more suited to karaoke night, since they don't want to do the necessary work to be vocalists in a band. OK, yeah, they're noobs, but if that's the case, they have no right to be so huffy.

Just my opinion...

Cherie
 

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