learning chord tones - but why?

[T40Chump]

I think it's important if you want to do anything but bang out roots for the rest of your playing career. It helps you construct bass lines that move a song and give it some color.

Knowing how to play a pattern to outline a chord is critical in creating a lively bass line IMO. Wisely used; creative patterns catch people's attention and draw them into the music. That will make your audience dig the band a lot more.

As bassists, we don't always get the glory but we are tasked with the thankless job of creating a tune that people want to move to.

 

[onosson]

If you spend some time learning a chordal instrument such as guitar or keyboards, this will help you understand the answer to your question. My first instrument was the organ, and I learned guitar at the same time as bass. Even though bass is my main instrument, my knowledge of chords on the other two is extremely useful to me as a bass player.

 

[bottomzone]

I think some of the replies here are a tad harsh. It's a perfectly reasonable question.

Bass lines are made up of notes and the notes are selected from chords, scales and modes. If you know the chords and scales you know how to choose notes that sound good.

Noone starts off knowing that stuff so don't be intimidated but do spend time studying it. Just knowing major and minor is enough for simple stuff but it's a limit pretty quickly. It jars when a bassist uses a perfect 5th in a diminished or augmented chord for example.

It's a long journey. Noone here knows everything. Keeping learning is part of the fun here.

+100!!!!! I give props for wanting to know! Since the bass line usually outlines the chords, chord tones are used for this purpose. One book that I continue to refer to is Bass Guitar for Dummies. Don't let the title fool you-this is an excellent book! And don't be afraid to ask a question!!!

A Groove is a Terrible Thing to Waste!

 

[JustOpenYourMind]

In my opinion, learning theory and playing music are two totally different things.

Learning theory is a mental effort, you memorize the scales, chords so you KNOW which chords are in which scales and what notes are in them and how they sound.

Then when you play music with people and you hear a guitar player play a minor seven chord you know what notes are in it and what you can play and can't play. At this point you don't even think about it and you can start experimenting and bending the rules.

As far as writing songs and coming up with good lines, all the theory in the world won't show you how to do that, you learn that part by playing and listening to lots of music.

An often used example is comparing theory with learning a language, it's alphabet, grammar rules and such. It doesn't make you a writer but it gives you the tools.

I would also compare music with drawing or painting, music theory is like practising shades, colors and lines on a sheet of paper before actually using them in a portrait.

Just learn the theory than after for example, look for a chord sheet of a tune you like, let's say a song by the beatles then look at what the bass play over the chord progression, you'll see that most of the time all the bass lines are made with the chord tones.

 

[anonymous122511]

so... going over the five w's
why do i need to know these chord tones

So you play the right notes...or you could look at it as NOT playing the wrong notes. Go to a piano and play a Cmaj7 chord and hold it. Now below that play an Eb. Nice, eh? Now replace the Eb with a Bb. Even better, right?
Now actually do this before you ask anymore questions. This stuff is about hearing it not about having theoretical discussion.

when do i use them?

EVERY TIME YOU PLAY.

what do i use them for?

See above.

HOW do i use them?

You don't. You practice the stuff until you have it not memorized (that's a total waste of time) but rather internalized. When you internalize something you don't have to make decisions about when or how to use it it just happens...and that's when the real music starts.

If you understood something you wouldn't need to practice it. So practicing things you don't understand is fine. The answers will present themselves through the doing not through discussion.

If you're even half serious about this get a teacher to get you going.

 

[DarkArwen]

I used Ed Friedland's Building Walking Bass Lines
He goes over that stuff in his book. It explains itself well, is easy to use and sorta fun too. Try it. For the money, I don't think you can go wrong.

 

[cjmodulus]

didnt bother to read the other responses, so i'm sure this has been said, but knowing how a chord is structured can really help you to create bass lines underneath chord changes. if you play a lot of jazz, like me, knowing chord structures helps you to walk the changes smoothly and effectively. In popular music, rather than playing along to a riff, if a guitarist is playing chords it's a chance for the bass to stand out a bit. instead of just playing roots, there's room to improvise a bit and play melodically. my 2 cents.

 

[JTE]

Well, what's the bass players job? There're two key components. One is to connect the rhythm to the tonal part of the music. The other is to define the harmony. Now in most musics, that means our job is to tell everyone two things- what the current chord is, and what the next chord is going to be. How do you do that? By know what the chord is. And "knowing what the chord is" is WAY more than just knowing the changes are Dmin7 to G9 to Cmaj7.

It's knowing what notes are in each of those chords, and how the chords function together. That's why you study chord tones. But just looking at them in a book, and getting your fingers to find 'em isn't really learning about them- that's just the mechanical part. So use the stuff people in this thread have already posted so you can really learn music, along with studying the book.

Then get a copy of the lead sheet (melody line and chords, like a fake book has) for some standards, things like "Stella By Starlight", "Autumn Leaves", "I Got Rhythm", "All Of Me", My Foolish Heart", etc. Learn the melody to one of them, and then look at the chords. Work out the notes in each chord from your chord studies. Then you'll be able to find the good notes that you need to play under those chords a lot faster.

John

 

[sedgwick1489]

Then get a copy of the lead sheet (melody line and chords, like a fake book has) for some standards, things like "Stella By Starlight", "Autumn Leaves", "I Got Rhythm", "All Of Me", My Foolish Heart", etc. Learn the melody to one of them, and then look at the chords. Work out the notes in each chord from your chord studies. Then you'll be able to find the good notes that you need to play under those chords a lot faster.John

Good point! You will find that many of the melodies to these tunes will consist of mainly chord tones. So, if you want your bass improvisations to sound melodic, chord tones are a wonderful starting point. In Jeff's book you'll notice this when you get to the section of practicing the chord tones through the cycle of 5ths especially the alternating chord tones chapter.

 

[blakelock]

i'm coming from a jam band root where we mostly just choose a key and don't have any real progressions just sort of float around the scale

here's my short and sweet explanation. even though everyone in your band is "floating around the scale", the guitarist is probably bouncing between a few chords. this chord progression tells you which chord tones to play. when your guitarist is playing Cmaj chord, the chord tones for Cmaj will sound good on bass. you don't have to play them all but it'll give you a good starting point. when he transitions to a new chord, you can switch to the chord tones of that new chord.

on the other hand, you could choose to play only root notes, or fly along some sweet chromatic riff while the guitarists holds down the basic progression. it's all wide open.

 

[fingerbun]

So you play the right notes...or you could look at it as NOT playing the wrong notes. Go to a piano and play a Cmaj7 chord and hold it. Now below that play an Eb. Nice, eh? Now replace the Eb with a Bb. Even better, right?
Now actually do this before you ask anymore questions. This stuff is about hearing it not about having theoretical discussion.

EVERY TIME YOU PLAY.

See above.

You don't. You practice the stuff until you have it not memorized (that's a total waste of time) but rather internalized. When you internalize something you don't have to make decisions about when or how to use it it just happens...and that's when the real music starts.

If you understood something you wouldn't need to practice it. So practicing things you don't understand is fine. The answers will present themselves through the doing not through discussion.

If you're even half serious about this get a teacher to get you going.

That kind of assumes ability to play the piano, plus a value judgement about what is nice.

If the guy wants to noodle around on ACDC and ZZ Top covers he can to a perfectly fine job and have a lot of fun just learning runs and riffs and knowing how to fit them to a chord.

 

[fearceol]

I am not an expert on theory, so I'll leave it to the good old reliable "Study Bass" site to explain it :

http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/chord-tones-are-primary/

In the diagrams, if you put the cursor arrow over the notes, it gives the sound of the note.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

i've been going over an old book one of my former teahers gave me by jeff berlin "a comprehensive chord tone system for mastering the bass" and its pretty thorough and goes over the major chord tones major 7, minor 7, minor 7b5, dominant 7, augmented 7, minor/major 7, minor 6, diminished 7, augmented major 7,

which is all good and all but just memorizing the chord tones isn't going to do jack for me, i need to know WHEN to use them and WHY i need to know them or else i'm jsut going to forget this stuff if i can't find out the importance behind memorizing these chord tones and fingering figurations

so... going over the five w's
why do i need to know these chord tones
when do i use them?
what do i use them for?
HOW do i use them?
(who not included)

I notice that you are a fan of John Paul Jones, who as we know is a multi instrumentalist. So it stands to reason that you would like what he done with Led Zeppelin?
As someone who had a great musical background that was grounded in piano as taught by his father, who was an arranger.
So if you listen to Led Zeppelin you hear lines constructed with purpose for the music not to his ability.
If you likes what he done for Led Zeppelin, then he arrived at it by making choices from his knowledge by having the option to use it.
Many players with limited or no understanding would not have had that choice.
So for me i would say listen to more John Paul Jones and work out why plays the way he does, listen to the context of the music in every way and then expand from there.
It is always good to listen to and analyse what you like, then expand it to other musical ideas.

In answer to you question about the 5 "W" it is what you do with them that will define you as a player not what anyone else has done or tells you to do. That is what separates players, how they think. You have to think it before you can play it, and you have to understand what it is you are playing.

 

[anonymous122511]

That kind of assumes ability to play the piano, plus a value judgement about what is nice.

If the guy wants to noodle around on ACDC and ZZ Top covers he can to a perfectly fine job and have a lot of fun just learning runs and riffs and knowing how to fit them to a chord.

You can make a Cmaj7 chord on the piano without the ability to "play" the piano. It's the best instrument for understanding theory. And since you can get a cheapo keyboard on craigslist for waaaaay under $100 it's not a big investment either. Schools and churches have pianos too if you don't want to spend a dime.

Sure there's a "value judgment" involved in saying a b7 sound like crap over a major chord. It's also just as uncool to play a maj7 over a dominant chord. Many ACDC and ZZ Top tunes are EXCELLENT examples where this is completely true.

 

[dalconthenovice]

I think some of the replies here are a tad harsh. It's a perfectly reasonable question.

Bass lines are made up of notes and the notes are selected from chords, scales and modes. If you know the chords and scales you know how to choose notes that sound good.

Noone starts off knowing that stuff so don't be intimidated but do spend time studying it. Just knowing major and minor is enough for simple stuff but it's a limit pretty quickly. It jars when a bassist uses a perfect 5th in a diminished or augmented chord for example.

It's a long journey. Noone here knows everything. Keeping learning is part of the fun here.

i expected the harshness but i appreciate the harshness too! i learned young that there are no stupid questions and if its a question it deserves an answer

and in my quest to be the best i can be musically? i'll put my pride aside to ask a question that might be considered stupid in hopes of getting an answer that will further my musical journey

thank you all for your input! its been very helpful

 

[dalconthenovice]

So you play the right notes...or you could look at it as NOT playing the wrong notes. Go to a piano and play a Cmaj7 chord and hold it. Now below that play an Eb. Nice, eh? Now replace the Eb with a Bb. Even better, right?
Now actually do this before you ask anymore questions. This stuff is about hearing it not about having theoretical discussion.

EVERY TIME YOU PLAY.

See above.

You don't. You practice the stuff until you have it not memorized (that's a total waste of time) but rather internalized. When you internalize something you don't have to make decisions about when or how to use it it just happens...and that's when the real music starts.

If you understood something you wouldn't need to practice it. So practicing things you don't understand is fine. The answers will present themselves through the doing not through discussion.

If you're even half serious about this get a teacher to get you going.

i got some questions in this regards
in cmaj7 in the key of C eb and Bb aren't even in the key of C why would those notes harmonize well with the chord then?

and in regards to a teacher, i'm very serious, but i can't afford a teacher, i'm living off of 400 dollars a month and food stamps

 

[lowstrung5]

I suggest anything from JAMEY ABERSOLD. He's a music educator and has a series of books/cd's that cover all kinds of material. It allows you to hear the chordal structure and is a great series that lets you develop your ear along with your knowledge of scales/chords.

 

[Stumbo]

i guess its a weird question because i'm coming from a jam band root where we mostly just choose a key and don't have any real progressions just sort of float around the scale

I suggest you branch out and find more outlets for your musitivity (musical creativity).

First step maybe to put some chords changes in those jams of yours.

Which chords? That IS the question.

Here are a few links you might like to take a look at that show you how chords are used in various genres:
"Complete Rhythm Guitar Guide for Blues Bands"
Chord progressions for song writers
Chords of Great Songs

Check out the link in my sig. below for more TB info that may help you out.

 

[anonymous122511]

i got some questions in this regards
in cmaj7 in the key of C eb and Bb aren't even in the key of C why would those notes harmonize well with the chord then?

Sorry, I was being sarcastic (yeah, ok being a dik) when I said "nice". Eb and Bb DON'T sound good over a Cmaj7. Getting the 3rd and the 7th wrong is the kiss of death in 100% of situations you're gonna run into for now. It's not enough to understand this intellectually though you have to "internalize" the sounds of notes in relation to each other. That's why you practice chords. Don't worry about what to "do" with them just get the sounds in yer head. Do that and a lot of music you hear now and can't get a grip on will become super obvious to you.

and in regards to a teacher, i'm very serious, but i can't afford a teacher, i'm living off of 400 dollars a month and food stamps

Ok, been there. One real advantage to being broke though is the amount of time you have to practice. Don't get me wrong I know poverty is slavery but you make every situation work to the best advantage you have. Even if you're not religious you could find a church with a kick-ass bass player and hang and ask questions...it'd only be the Christian Thing for him to answer you.
Actually you should bug EVERY bass player you meet. You will get blown off but you may be surprised at how many of them cough up the goods an show you things.

 

[aidan784]

I was going to start a new thread but this seems good enough, how do I know when I really have my chord tones down? An example I've thought of and possibly a benchmark I've set for myself is being able to chord tone solo over ANY progression put in front of me, whether it's a real tune, no matter how obscure, obvious 3-7 voice leading or not. This sound good or is there anything anybody would suggest?

I'm basically working on them as Jeff Berlin suggests, slowly. I'm still working with major, what I do is I take a permutation ( I have them all written out) such as 5-3-7-R and I work it all over the neck, 10-12 minutes for each key. If there's time I play them through the cycle. This means it'll take me 24 days if I'm consistent for each chord quality. Now that I'm writing it out this doesn't seem like a great idea but I feel I am getting them down better.

Don't get me wrong I've practiced chord tones for a good while but I'm trying to really own them so this may seem a bit laborious to some. I'm just still not sure what to aim for, maybe it'll just show up in my walking or soloing when I really know them?

I'll also just sometimes chord tone solo through a blues or a standard (granted I don't know many). slowly or out of time etc.

Sorry, I have the tendency to ramble