Double Bass Learning Efficiency

[dpok]

Sorry about the length.

I have been thinking about this for a bit of time and would value experienced input. Bass is my second instrument (drums first). I started at age 59, 4 months ago. Most everybody would probably want to be efficient with their learning, but my age may make it efficiency even more important.

The way I think about it, the most important factors in learning an instrument are a good teacher, volume of practice time, quality of practice and a third category maybe we could call learning away from the instrument.

Good teacher: I think I found the best teacher my smallish town has to offer and we mesh well. I think I am good here.

Quantity of practice time: There are two limiting factors here for me - Time availability in a day and I travel 4 or 5 days a month. The second is something different than I encountered with drums – body and/or hands getting tired/achy to a point earlier than I would hope knowing my practice is getting sloppy because of it.

Quality of practice: This is where I think I lack and could stand to improve the most. I basically just practice what I have for my lesson just like I did when I was 7 years old. No good plan. When I first started, I wrote in a practice journal every day, but that only last for about two weeks.

Learning away from the instrument: Things like going through scales in my brain, etc. I would like to figure out more visualization exercises. I am currently reading a book on music theory. A month before I started, I did planks every day. That lasted for 2 months. Should start that up to keep my body from getting tired while practicing.

Maybe/hopefully suggestions some might have for me might help others as well.

Thank you for your input,

Dave

 

[Wasnex]

Everyone learns at their own rate. The factors you mention are very relevant. The biggest factor you left out, IMHO is natural ability. Ultimately natural ability is the most important.

Progress can seem extremely slow and it's easy to get frustrated. Some things you may try to help make progress more apparent is to record yourself and keep a journal.

Ultimately, you can only progress as fast as your mind and body allow, and it is essential to have reasonable expectations. Another factor I suggest is trying to find the right balance. Too much practice will wear you out and also potentially lock up your brain. My recommendation is to avoid practicing anything to the point of physical exhaustion or extreme frustration. Playing when you are physically worn out makes it impossible to use good technique, and playing to extreme frustration leads to mental locks.

An approach I used is to work on several things in a cycle. I go through all of the music I need to prepare and identify the sections that need work. Then I work on one section until I start getting frustrated, and then put it down and pick up the next. When I start getting frustrated on that section, I put it down and pick up the next. After I work through everything, I start the cycle over again. This approach works well for me, but YMMV.

I find that I am usually good if I work for 45 mins and then take a 15 min break. When I am forced to work for longer periods without breaks, I start experiencing physical problems and developing overuse symptoms.

Regarding mental locks. I have found that when I am working up fast technical music that I sometimes hit a wall and cannot progress further. There have been many times where I did not get all passages up to the desired quality level before a performance. Sometimes you have to fake it.

The interesting thing is that a few weeks after the performance when it was time to hand in the music, sometimes I would read through the part one last time. It's surprising how many times I could play all sections cleanly at tempos that were faster than required. Either I had mastered it previously and become mentally blocked, or my brain kept working on the problem after I stopped. Either way, my point is sometimes the best thing you can do it put something down. This may mean 15 minutes, 2 weeks, a couple of months, etc.

One final factor I suggest you consider is the quality and setup of you instrument. In particular I find that most orchestral basses have the nut cut way higher than I find acceptable. This causes the string tension to increase significantly as you play closer to the nut. It also tends to cause the tension to be uneven across the strings close to the nut. I prefer to file the nut to mitigate these problems as much as possible. If you decide to do this yourself, be careful as it's easy to file too much.

Another factor is string choice, which determines the character of your tone, how easily the instrument bows, and how much sustain it has with pizz. I used Spirocores for most of my professional career. These are generally considered about the best strings you can use for crossover work (Jazz/Orchestral). They require good technique to bow cleanly and they may not blend well in an orchestral bass section (too bright). Depending on the quality of your bass, they may not be bowable at all. Many orchestral players prefer strings that are darker, have less sustain, and bow easier.

Good luck on your journey!

 

[BaileyMan]

Check out Bullet Proof Musician. Noa Kageyama has some great info on practicing smarter and performingmore consistently. He's a performance psychologist and violinist. I think he teaches at one of the big music conservatories in New York.

I've found the info in his blog posts and occasional emails really really helpful.

 

[Don Hergert]

I'd add one more category for us folks over 55 or so that are taking up double bass late in life... That is, "Reasonably, what do you want to accomplish with this instrument for the rest of your life?"

If we were kids and taking up double bass with the foresight to do so seriously, there would reasonably be enough time to just say "I want to do everything that can be done with a double bass" and have a fair chance of living long enough to accomplish it. But most of us starting at over 55 are reasonably only looking at a musical future of 20 to 30 years if everything continues working ok, and possibly longer if we're really lucky. And when we start, if we're already dealing with some health or age related problems, we need to be realistic about it.

So setting realistic goals for a relatively limited future musical life is really important, and then we need to use those goals to help determine the directions we go in for training. To a large extent, there's no use spinning our wheels on learning how to do things that won't help us meet our goals. There are some fundamentals to learn, yes, but time is limited, so discussing goals with teachers and mentors, and making sure they share your goals as they help you learn, is important.

And, there's probably one other point that is worth making clear -- if you love playing an instrument, you'll work on improving how you play it, forever. When people ask how long it takes to learn how to play, I usually reply "The rest of your life."

 

[dpok]

I checked out the Bulletproof Musician website. There is a lot of really good stuff there. I willl enjoy going through that very much. Thank you for that information.

I like the thoughful question of what I want to accomplish by doing this. My teacher asked a similiar question on the first lesson. The only answer I had was I didn't want to sit on the couch until I die. I think I need a better answer.

 

[David Potts]

Could you please tell us what genre of music is driving your interest in the bass and whether you are learning with a bow (German or French)?

There is an ad running on our TV at the moment that warns us we are losing 8% of muscle per year after the age of 40 !!!! Then wants you to buy some sort of product to off-set it. Truth is we do start to lose both strength and endurance, perhaps not noticing this so much when playing our chosen long term instrument because of "match fitness" with the specific muscles (until we overuse or strain them). Sadly I have recently been reminded of all this because of almost two years of covid shutdowns then getting cellulitis in my LH. I am back playing in orchestras (Joy) but carefully rebuilding strength and endurance in hands, arms and shoulders using a soft foam "stress" ball and different coloured physio rubbers (mainly for my rotator cuffs). In my practice I am trying to re-establish "good" habits with my hand and arm shapes and movements. Once I can play the upcoming pieces I revert to using scales and long bows carefully to warm up and am gradually increasing practice time and materials.

I see learning/teaching the bass as being like building a pyramid of knowledge upside down that relies heavily on the initial basic building blocks of LH/RH shapes and uses. From here a good teacher should plot a path through learning towards playing all the notes, in tune, in time, with musicianship and with sense of style. This is a big ask of your motivation, concentration and time especially if you are wading through the first 68 pages of Simandl (that I find boring!) but you are learning to map the fingerboard, create logical fingerings and read music, all of which seriously adds to your value as a musician.

Just playing the bass will strengthen your hands if they both have good shapes based on fingers being arched, thumbs curved and hands cupped. Squeezing a soft stress ball in the palm of your hand with fingers and thumb working towards each other will build up some strength and endurance. A rubber band can help strengthen your big thumb muscles. Build exercises up slowly and don't inflame by overdoing. Lifting weights and doing thousands of chin-ups and push-ups is unneccessary IMO. Better might be to take you bass to show a physiotherapist and ask for advice about (age-related) suitable exercises

Cheers, from another Dave.

 

[AGCurry]

I'd add one more category for us folks over 55 or so that are taking up double bass late in life... That is, "Reasonably, what do you want to accomplish with this instrument for the rest of your life?"

The answer to this great question can change as we progress, too. After being a "self-taught" pizzer since 1975, I started lessons at age 68. My stated goal at the time was "Don't embarrass myself with the bow." Little did I know how much is involved in that modest goal! As I (still) work toward the original goal, the goalposts have moved, always farther away.

 

[dpok]

Right now I mainly play with a bow (french) and am playing through the beginning of the 1st Progressive and Scale George Vance books with a few other handouts from my teacher. I set down my bow here and there to pizz through the scales or songs here and there.

I enjoy jazz, but wouldn't mind one day joining my son on cello along with a piano player in church (pretty forgivng crowd). Not sure I can see a day that I would ever gig on bass, but maybe a number years from now an end goal could be to play some jazz at nursing homes (short sets, not a lot of equipment, easy crowd, do it when you want, make about the same amount of money by the time my family comes and drinks wine at the places I used to play).

 

[Bruce Calin]

One of the main issues that my adult students often have is frustration over the pace of advancement. They assume that because they have had success in other areas of life or with another instrument that this should be easy. What I need to emphasize then is to enjoy the process and accept the rate of improvement for what it is. Sometimes this works, often it doesn't.

 

[dpok]

Well Bruce,
It is like you saw into my soul.
My wife and I just had this discussion last week. I told her when I started, I envisioned my teacher telling all his bass teacher friends he has a student that is progressing faster than anyone he has ever heard of. Well, not so much. She told me to enjoy the journey. I told her she only might be right.

 

[Bruce Calin]

Well Bruce,
It is like you saw into my soul.
My wife and I just had this discussion last week. I told her when I started, I envisioned my teacher telling all his bass teacher friends he has a student that is progressing faster than anyone he has ever heard of. Well, not so much. She told me to enjoy the journey. I told her she only might be right.

It's easier to tell students than it is to tell myself. I still can go through the "why did it take so long to learn that passage, technique, or whatever"? I have to remind myself to relax and enjoy the whole deal.

 

[jj.833]

As for practice quality, I - only at my 43 - found that playing slower gets me to progress faster. When practicing, I spend 15-30 minutes playing one scale, very slow, up and down the board. I practise slow enough so that my head can actively think of every playing issue, from posture to pitch.

 

[David Potts]

dpok, because you are learning with the bow you might also consider aiming for one day playing with your son in a local community orchestra or group. For me the joy has always been playing with other like minded people. Just my 2c worth !

 

[CaseyVancouver]

the most important factors in learning an instrument are a good teacher, volume of practice time, quality of practice and a third category maybe we could call learning away from the instrument.

Good points.

A seriously major one you missed is the music connection with other people.
A quick way to get nowhere and even lose interest on an instrument is to not play with others.
Music and how well you play, how much you enjoy it, in the long run is about your musical world with others.

 

[Andy Mopley]

All good replies, and hard to improve on.
A long time ago, I saw learning the instrument a journey, not a destination. And you'll learn that the better you get, the harder it gets.
We can all ride a bicycle yet some can sprint faster, others have more endurance, others perform unbelievable trickery on them - to the extent that we accept that we all have our talent (in different doses) we'll be able to develop a strategy to become the best we can be. Ultimately, WE don't play the DB - IT plays US.

 

[Andy Mopley]

[QUOTE=the most important factors in learning an instrument are a good teacher, volume of practice time, quality of practice and a third category maybe we could call learning away from the instrument."

I would have added humility and willingness/hunger to learn, personally, well ahead of all of these. But perhaps I am missing the point that the latter is a given.

 

[BassFalcon]

Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Don’t not practice because you only have 15 min instead of an hour. Make the most of the 15 minutes. Focus intensely and squeeze those 15 minutes for every drop of juice they have. Francois Rabbath says that when he picks up his bass he is no longer a husband, a father, he is nothing but a bass player, but when he sets the bass down he is no longer a bass player and focuses on those other things. Always give 100%, but be aware that today’s 100% may only be 25% of your total capacity because you’re sick or had an argument with the wife or kids, or sore from working out or whatever. It doesn’t matter, take what you can get. Bring to bear all the focus and energy you have at that moment for however long you have available and the progress will come. If you start playing and it all sounds like trash or feels like trash, walk away. You don’t want to reinforce bad patterns or habits. We want quality practice. If you don’t have any mental or physical capacity at that time admit it, or even if you had an hour and all that focus and intent expired at 40 min, move on. Try again later. Or try looking at a different aspect. I’ve had two significant bone breaks in my hands decades apart. I was still able to make progress during those recovery periods because I focused my practice time on things like time, harmony, hearing, etc. and I used visualization, I sat and thought about my hand movements and my fingers going to the right spots at the right times, playing scales in my mind, and when I was finally cleared to play again some things made a lot more sense. Which feeds into another Rabbathism, he says if you want to be a soloist, practice like a soloist, etc. etc. if you want to play in church, every time you touch your bass play as if your son and the piano player are there and you are playing for your congregation. Even scales, which is to say again, give your 100% all the time.
A good teacher will help you progress much faster than alone, that’s certainly true. Practice quality is the other significant thing. Practice time is not, again, take what you can get, and make the most of it. Happy Trails Amigo! Have fun!!!

 

[David Potts]

Wow ! Well said. Another old quote from somewhere is "Practice does not make you perfect. Perfect practice makes you better." Work/life balance is not easy but there is always room for some fun (even when you are practicing).