learning scale patterns

[consectaneus]

I watched Anthony's video and it made sense to me...for a 7 string bass. Can anyone explain briefly how you would apply to a 4 string bass?

Thanks!

Yeah, almost no one plays a 7 string but it is useful for helping people at a clinic grasp the principle quickly. Obviously for the rest of us (I play a 4 string) we are going to shift positions to play two octaves of a mode which is what we do as bassists anyway. Suppose you are playing M I L L in one position starting somewhere on the E string (let's say fifth fret A) of a 4 string as a scale in order. We know that will be the A Mixolydian mode:

E string: whole step, whole step
A string: whole step, whole step
D string: whole step, whole step
G string: half step, whole step

If you need or want to go further you can continue the sequence by following it right up the G string, (half step, whole step, whole step half step, and so on) or work backwards and down from where you started at A on the E string (whole step, half step E-F#-G). The thing to keep in mind is that you can start at any position and run the MILLPAD mode sequences starting anywhere. That's why the better you know the acronym forward and backward and visualize it as a cycling round and round the more useful it will be. I think it's fun putting the puzzle pieces together. Try working on it along one string and find out where the pattern picks up on the next string etc. It's fun!

I see this as a "mental map" thing. The modes themselves are nothing new, only the way of seeing them all over the fingerboard is. The genius of a great teacher like Anthony is to organize a complicated concept and present in such a way that it can be grasped in the most effective and efficient way possible. This did that for me.

 

[consectaneus]

MILLPAD is not about understanding modes at all; its just a crutch to help play them on a bass tuned in fourths.

Yes, as Steve said, its much better to learn the notes, keys, scales and harmonizations.

I only brought it up as the OP asked if he should bother learning all the patterns for each mode. I suggested he check out MILLPAD, as its only one pattern.

I have to disagree with this and with others who have said this system is bass specific. Since it is a mental map based on visualizing intervals, it applies as a concept regardless of instrument. For example, I could be asked to construct a Locrian mode (even away from my instrument) and instantly describe the interval sequence. From there it would take more time and thought (for me) to spell the notes in a specific key (as in, "quick, give me the notes of Eb Phrygian") but of course much easier with your bass in your lap. There seems to be some concern here that this method will discourage learning the names of the notes, but I see no reason why this has to be. I think the two skills support each other.

 

[ics1974]

This MILLPAD system is the biggest ah ha I have had in a very long time with music. I have been drawing out on graph paper and playing the patterns and THIS IS what was missing with my understanding and visualization of the modes. It’s like seeing the code in the matrix.

 

[Polish Thunder]

Yeah, almost no one plays a 7 string but it is useful for helping people at a clinic grasp the principle quickly. Obviously for the rest of us (I play a 4 string) we are going to shift positions to play two octaves of a mode which is what we do as bassists anyway. Suppose you are playing M I L L in one position starting somewhere on the E string (let's say fifth fret A) of a 4 string as a scale in order. We know that will be the A Mixolydian mode:

E string: whole step, whole step
A string: whole step, whole step
D string: whole step, whole step
G string: half step, whole step

If you need or want to go further you can continue the sequence by following it right up the G string, (half step, whole step, whole step half step, and so on) or work backwards and down from where you started at A on the E string (whole step, half step E-F#-G). The thing to keep in mind is that you can start at any position and run the MILLPAD mode sequences starting anywhere. That's why the better you know the acronym forward and backward and visualize it as a cycling round and round the more useful it will be. I think it's fun putting the puzzle pieces together. Try working on it along one string and find out where the pattern picks up on the next string etc. It's fun!


I see this as a "mental map" thing. The modes themselves are nothing new, only the way of seeing them all over the fingerboard is. The genius of a great teacher like Anthony is to organize a complicated concept and present in such a way that it can be grasped in the most effective and efficient way possible. This did that for me.

Thanks for the explanation. I do get the pattern if you start on the E string. But what if you start on the D string? Let's say we are looking at the Mixolydian mode starting at G (fifth fret of D string). Would it be like this:

D string: whole step, whole step
G string: whole step, whole step
E string: whole step, whole step
A string: half step, whole step

So you just continue onto the third pattern (whole step. whole step) on the E string and then the forth pattern (half step, whole step) on the A string (with the one fret shift)?

FWIW: I have been playing bass less than two years. Since I play mostly Blues, I do not feel that modes are critical. But I am trying to learn as much basic music theory anyways.

 

[consectaneus]

I played your example and it's looks right to me. That is a big jump down to that E string F#. You found an area that I could definitely work on. I tend to work on these real linear, just running scales and exploring the relationships to chords and progressions. Guys who solo modally would no doubt have better musical strategies for connecting up your idea more smoothly and I'm sure you could too, like maybe descending down the A string. But anyway that's not your question. What you wrote proves you know how the order of things are supposed to work as I understand it. I think that graph paper idea the OP mentioned is a great idea. I think that would help me reinforce the visual even more. I was just noticing when playing your example how much I tend to like descending scales. I guess I hear chord or scale qualities better when it's descending down to a root--that resolution.

Like I wrote before, this is more of a theoretical tool for me to help me understand how and why harmony and scales and chords are constructed. I'm fixated on walking bass right now so more of a chord tone approach, but even then I feel like knowing this stuff helps me see the big picture and other things keep getting clearer as I keep connecting things up.

 

[MVE]

Thanks for the explanation. I do get the pattern if you start on the E string. But what if you start on the D string? Let's say we are looking at the Mixolydian mode starting at G (fifth fret of D string). Would it be like this:

D string: whole step, whole step
G string: whole step, whole step
E string: whole step, whole step
A string: half step, whole step

So you just continue onto the third pattern (whole step. whole step) on the E string and then the forth pattern (half step, half step) on the A string (with the one fret shift)?

FWIW: I have been playing bass less than two years. Since I play mostly Blues, I do not feel that modes are critical. But I am trying to learn as much basic music theory anyways.

This is actually the point I was trying to make about how it helps me move around.
I know G is the 5th (Mix) of C, so I can put my index finger on any note in the C scale and continue playing in G Mixolydian.
Your example starts from the 5th fret of the D string, you run out of strings after W, W, W on the D and W, W, W, on the G string... whats the next note? (F! Or the 4th/Lydian of C) So, Slam your index finger on the F on your D string (15th fret) and keep going while kinda seeing the Lydian pattern in your mind and just go both ways till you run out of fretboard at either end.

But a better example that uses the whole fretboard might be something like G Aeolian. Knowing its the 6th of Bb, you can do a WH on the E string, WH on the A string, and then jump upto the Bb (13th of A string) and visually think of the Ionian pattern in your mind.

But reading the last part of your response makes me think you might be better recommended to work on something else first. Can you already play arpeggios of 4 part chords in all keys for Maj7, Min7, Dominant, Aug & Dim? If so, then yeah work on modes. But if not, I suggest you work on that first.
You really need to be able to play through a chord chart with just arpeggios before trying to plug in the rest of those scales.
Essentially, those chords are the first, third, fifth and seventh note of each of the modes.
You should be able to walk a bass line over a chord chart using notes from the arpeggios before trying to use the full modes to make a melody over it.
But, Im not a teacher so please take my recommendations accordingly.

 

[IamGroot]

Chord Usage in Jazz

The answer to many if not all scale questions.

 

[ics1974]

Thanks for the explanation. I do get the pattern if you start on the E string. But what if you start on the D string? Let's say we are looking at the Mixolydian mode starting at G (fifth fret of D string). Would it be like this:

D string: whole step, whole step
G string: whole step, whole step
E string: whole step, whole step
A string: half step, whole step

So you just continue onto the third pattern (whole step. whole step) on the E string and then the forth pattern (half step, whole step) on the A string (with the one fret shift)?

FWIW: I have been playing bass less than two years. Since I play mostly Blues, I do not feel that modes are critical. But I am trying to learn as much basic music theory anyways.

No it would be

D string: whole step, whole step
G string: whole step, whole step
E string: whole step, half step
A string: whole step, half step

 

[IamGroot]

So that's A Aeolian pattern. Octave plus 5. 12 Notes.

Scale exercise
Sax players have a cliche , an ascending set of 6 1 3 5 scales which brings them back to the 6.

A aeolian (12 notes)
C major
E phrygian
G mixolydian.

I practice this for speed. The sax players play it at 60 bpm with each 12 notes played in the space of one beat, which is blinding fast. I am happy just to be able to do it in triplets at 120.

Edit. I saw this in a shred metal video also.

The memorization trick is that the roots of each scale form a minor 7 chord.

 

[SteveCS]

Thanks for the explanation. I do get the pattern if you start on the E string. But what if you start on the D string? Let's say we are looking at the Mixolydian mode starting at G (fifth fret of D string). Would it be like this:

D string: whole step, whole step
G string: whole step, whole step
E string: whole step, whole step
A string: half step, whole step

So you just continue onto the third pattern (whole step. whole step) on the E string and then the forth pattern (half step, whole step) on the A string (with the one fret shift)?

FWIW: I have been playing bass less than two years. Since I play mostly Blues, I do not feel that modes are critical. But I am trying to learn as much basic music theory anyways.

It is a universal pattern that repeats ad-infinitum in both directions for strings in 4ths. After 'D' it goes back to 'M', etc. So just place the pattern wherever you want and go from there. If you want to start G Mixolydian at 5th fret on D (2nd) string, you 'overlay' the 'M' at 5 on D. With M at 5 on D you can now see you have 'D' at 5th fret on your A (3rd) string - the first 3 notes of D Dorian (D, E, F) are on the A string - and at 5 on E you will have the first 3 notes of A Aeolian (A, B, C). At 5th on G, that's the first 3 notes of C Ionian (C, D & E).

 

[consectaneus]

No it would be

D string: whole step, whole step
G string: whole step, whole step
E string: whole step, half step
A string: whole step, half step

View attachment 3812696

This is why I said before that the system is a little quirky, or it can seem that way. Actually they are intervals so it is mathematically consistent. It's just that sometimes it depends on where we see the three kinds of three note groupings. In Polish Thunder's example, it follows that the next three note sequence on the G string would be F, G,A (whole step, whole step) but he wants to drop down an octave to frets 1, 3, 5 on the E string (F,G,A)

BUT, what you diagrammed is also correct, only think about your A note on the fifth fret E string there as the last note of the whole step, whole step F,G,A grouping, and the next two notes in your diagram (B,C) as the first two notes of a half step, whole step three note group, B,C,D.

This is the way I analyze it anyway. It can be tricky changing strings and directions.

 

[ics1974]

This is why I said before that the system is a little quirky, or it can seem that way. Actually they are intervals so it is mathematically consistent. It's just that sometimes it depends on where we see the three kinds of three note groupings. In Polish Thunder's example, it follows that the next three note sequence on the G string would be F, G,A (whole step, whole step) but he wants to drop down an octave to frets 1, 3, 5 on the E string (F,G,A)

BUT, what you diagrammed is also correct, only think about your A note on the fifth fret E string there as the last note of the whole step, whole step F,G,A grouping, and the next two notes in your diagram (B,C) as the first two notes of a half step, whole step three note group, B,C,D.

This is the way I analyze it anyway. It can be tricky changing strings and directions.

Ah I see what he means now and it makes sense. I didn’t realize we were dropping down an octive

 

[Whousedtoplay]

From here:

Jazclass - Jazz Theory 17 : IIø - V7 - Im

 

[Polish Thunder]

This is why I said before that the system is a little quirky, or it can seem that way. Actually they are intervals so it is mathematically consistent. It's just that sometimes it depends on where we see the three kinds of three note groupings. In Polish Thunder's example, it follows that the next three note sequence on the G string would be F, G,A (whole step, whole step) but he wants to drop down an octave to frets 1, 3, 5 on the E string (F,G,A)

BUT, what you diagrammed is also correct, only think about your A note on the fifth fret E string there as the last note of the whole step, whole step F,G,A grouping, and the next two notes in your diagram (B,C) as the first two notes of a half step, whole step three note group, B,C,D.

This is the way I analyze it anyway. It can be tricky changing strings and directions.

Thank you to everyone for their help in explaining it.

The part that confused me was going from the G string to the E string is not a fourth (like E to A, A to D) and that is what caused my confusion.

I decided that I am either going to:

1. Stick with the MILLPAD pattern and start on only the E or A string. To me, the patterns would work without having to think about it.

2. Follow Malcolm35's advice from post #30, going over scale spellings and major and minor modes. I know the scales and by making small adjustments, I can get the modes. I like the R, 2, b3 method WAY better than trying to memorize the notes (C, D, Eb...)...for each and every mode and scale.

 

[ics1974]

I drew this up to help me visualize the pattern (Highlighted in yellow) with the neighbouring patters.

 

[Polish Thunder]

I drew this up to help me visualize the pattern (Highlighted in yellow) with the neighbouring patters.

View attachment 3813014

If I close my left eye and look at it, it spells HELP....

 

[mambo4]

I drew this up to help me visualize the pattern (Highlighted in yellow) with the neighbouring patters.

I did mostly the same thing years ago.
A big "aha" moment for me. The one , single diatonic pattern that all modes share,
visualized across strings tuned in 4ths. The same can be done for petatonics, or arpeggio shapes.

 

[SteveCS]

This MILLPAD system is the biggest ah ha I have had in a very long time with music. I have been drawing out on graph paper and playing the patterns and THIS IS what was missing with my understanding and visualization of the modes. It’s like seeing the code in the matrix.

Way back in the days before computers, YouTube, the Intenet, apps and such, we had things called paper and cardboard, and things to manipulate and mark them with, like pens, pencils, rulers, scissors, sellotape, etc. I used them to make this 'slide-rule' type of contraption that allowed me to move a vignette window over the pattern to display the various sections of the pattern and hhe name of the mode starting on the lowest note indicated. I came across it today whilst looking through some old stuff. I don't think I ever really used it for the intended purpose, but the process of designing and making it drove the idea home so far I never needed to.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I don't think I ever really used it for the intended purpose

My main point.

 

[MVE]

Sometimes just making flashcards is as helpful as using them.