learning scale patterns

[ics1974]

Hello,

Is it necessary to learn all the mode patterns?
I understand how the major scale and the modes work theory wise. i.e the different interval. I also understand how chords are created from scales. What I am not great at is knowing all the patterns on the neck for all the different modes.
I usually stick to chord tones and add in approach notes, chromatics etc in my playing but never really visualize in terms of scale pattern other then the major scale or pentatonics.
My question is as a bass player should I dedicate my time to learning the fingerings of all these scale/mode patterns or is just knowing the theory good enough?

 

[two fingers]

I would learn the patterns.

1) Muscle memory. It will be easier to incorporate these patterns into your playing when your muscles are familiar with them. Your brain will "go there" more easily once you have mastered the patterns.

2) Your brain is incredible. As you learn those scale patterns, your brain will begin to digest them and understand when/where/why/how to use them in your playing. You won't even consciously think about it. That "app will be running in the background" so to speak.

3) Nobody ever uses car analogies (sarcasm alert) so let's do it here.

Theory is only the map. Driving is when you apply the theory. If your theory (map) is limited, you will be forced to stay on the major (pun intended) highways. The more in-depth your theory (map) is, and the more your ability to APPLY said theory increases (the better you are able to drive), the more you'll be able to take the scenic route on your drives. Musically, you'll be able to take the backroads and not-so-well-beaten paths that will allow your musical journey to be more interesting to you, your bandmates, and even your audience.


Short version: Yep. It's totally worth the effort.

 

[Mushroo]

It's interesting to me that not once did you mention the word "songs."

If the songs you play use modes then yes, you should learn how to play modes.
If the songs you play don't use modes then no, you don't need to learn how to play modes.

So let me ask you, what genre of song do you like to play? Who are some of your favorite songwriters?

 

[ics1974]

It's interesting to me that not once did you mention the word "songs."

If the songs you play use modes then yes, you should learn how to play modes.
If the songs you play don't use modes then no, you don't need to learn how to play modes.

So let me ask you, what genre of song do you like to play? Who are some of your favorite songwriters?

Good point. I like Rock, Hard Rock, Blues and some Heavy Metal.
I listen to Tragically Hip, Pink Floyd, Metallica, Guns N Roses, John Bonamassa, Clapton, RHCP.

 

[SteveCS]

IMHO, we don't practice scales to learn their notes or patterns - that's the easy bit. We practice them to develop and maintain the finger strength, dexterity, speed, flexibility and touch necessary to have control over tone, dynamics, timing, intonation, etc that allows us to make music with our instruments...

In that sense the patterns are a means to an end, not the end in themselves

YMMV

 

[Malcolm35]

Yes to running your scales, modes & arpeggios to get your fingers doing what they need to do.

IMO scales, modes, etc are the basic fundamentals we must get down to understand how music is made. I like to say "How music thinks."

 

[Mushroo]

Good point. I like Rock, Hard Rock, Blues and some Heavy Metal.
I listen to Tragically Hip, Pink Floyd, Metallica, Guns N Roses, John Bonamassa, Clapton, RHCP.

I would think that knowing (at least) the Mixolydian mode would be helpful for those genres.

 

[Spin Doctor]

It's interesting to me that not once did you mention the word "songs."

If the songs you play use modes then yes, you should learn how to play modes.
If the songs you play don't use modes then no, you don't need to learn how to play modes.

So let me ask you, what genre of song do you like to play? Who are some of your favorite songwriters?

I would think that knowing (at least) the Mixolydian mode would be helpful for those genres.

I will never understand these kind of answers when it come to modes. Every mode is just the same 7 notes in different note sequences. So instead of recommending the player learn ALL of the intervallic sequences that comes from understanding and learning all the modal patterns, you say that it's fine just learning one intervallic pattern and instantly limit his learning. Nobody who really gets this stuff thinks, "play this mode, then play that mode". What should be happening is that you use the facility you gain through learning modes to navigate the fretboard. It's not ever about "play G mixolydian over G7" or any of that.

Honestly, Two Fingers and Malcom's answer are the only ones here that makes any sense to me. Steve's is good, but is a little too "complicated" from my view when the real concern of modes is just learning the fretboard and getting the sound in your head. That aspect of tone, timing, dynamics, etc comes from putting your knowledge to use. I don't work on modes to work on timing. I work on timing, to work on timing. You only need one note to do that. Or you can use pentatonics. Or arpeggios. Or anything, really.

So in my view, if you want to be any good at playing bass, you need to understand the modes. What's more important, and what apparently isn't very well understood in talkbass-land, is how to use that knowledge.

 

[Malcolm35]

What is more important, and what apparently isn't very well understood in talkbass is how to use that modal knowledge.

The chord vamp under a mode let the modal mood cut through. If you play a mode over a tonal chord progression the tonal center of that progression may not let the modal sound (mood) develop. You've wasted a perfectly good mode, as all you will hear is the tonal center of the progression. Long story.

This may be helpful: Invalid Link Removed

 

[Spin Doctor]

The chord vamp under a mode let the modal mood cut through. If you play a mode over a tonal chord progression the tonal center of that progression may not let the modal sound (mood) develop. You've wasted a perfectly good mode, as all you will hear is the tonal center of the progression. Long story.

Do a Google on modal harmony...

I know modes and how to use them pretty well. Thanks.

 

[InhumanResource]

Hello,

Is it necessary to learn all the mode patterns?
I understand how the major scale and the modes work theory wise. i.e the different interval. I also understand how chords are created from scales. What I am not great at is knowing all the patterns on the neck for all the different modes.
I usually stick to chord tones and add in approach notes, chromatics etc in my playing but never really visualize in terms of scale pattern other then the major scale or pentatonics.
My question is as a bass player should I dedicate my time to learning the fingerings of all these scale/mode patterns or is just knowing the theory good enough?

I think it’s helpful to learn them and get accustomed to their tonalities. If you start improvising over more complex harmony the modes will help you outline the chords, but in my own case I think more in terms of the chord tones than I do in scales/modes. I'm also not a great improviser!

Do yourself a favor - if you are going to practice them, do them in 2 octaves up and down. And in all keys. That should get you pretty well mapped in terms of learning all the real estate on the neck.

 

[Malcolm35]

I know modes and how to use them pretty well. Thanks.

Spin Doctor this was not directed to you. Sorry if it sounded like it was.

Malcolm

 

[Spin Doctor]

Spin Doctor this was not directed to you. Sorry if it sounded like it was.

Malcolm

Ah. No problem. You quoted me, so I assumed it was.

 

[juggahnaught]

You should learn everything you can, so yes, you should learn the modes. (It's not as though you're racing against the clock. Time isn't a factor here. You won't lose anything by learning something new.)

Learning the fingerings and internalizing them can improve your facility and speed on the bass - not having to think about what you want to play. This in turn can lead to being more expressive on the bass itself.

But it's really about what you want. If your goal is just to be a better player in your field, then this probably isn't necessary for you. If your goal is to be a better player period, then this may not be necessary, but I'd highly suggest it. If your goal is to be a better musician, then it's necessary.

Figure out your goals and then make your decision. Ignore the time factor. Good luck!

 

[MVE]

MILLPAD

...now there’s only one “pattern”.

MILLPAD is also great for really learning your whole fingerboard. Not just knowing it with your head and memory but knowing it instinctively with your fingers. It helped me to learn every mode starting from any degree. IOW, if Im on the 6th of BbM, I don’t need to find the “root” pattern for my fingers to know where the notes are, I just need to think millpAd (aeolian), even though Im playing BbM, because my finger was on the G, I still know where the scale is.

Im not explaining this very well... lol

 

[REV]

No one has really mentioned ear training yet. I find that practicing scales and modes is very helpful in terms of ear training. Knowing how one note in a scale follows another and how different intervals stack up against one another is very helpful. It's even better (and a little easier) if you practice this on piano but practicing on bass will still help.

 

[InhumanResource]

MILLPAD

...now there’s only one “pattern”.

MILLPAD is also great for really learning your whole fingerboard. Not just knowing it with your head and memory but knowing it instinctively with your fingers. It helped me to learn every mode starting from any degree. IOW, if Im on the 6th of BbM, I don’t need to find the “root” pattern for my fingers to know where the notes are, I just need to think millpAd (aeolian), even though Im playing BbM, because my finger was on the G, I still know where the scale is.

Im not explaining this very well... lol

What the heck is Millpad?

 

[phillipkregg]

When I started out, I tried to learn all the patterns - starting with the major/minor scale patterns and moving on to modes.

It all seemed like memorization for memorization's sake, and it didn't really click for me until I changed my focus to learning all of the key signatures, and then mapping all of the notes of the key to the notes on my fingerboard.

When that happens, wow. Everything changes. You won't need to memorize patterns, because the patterns will naturally reveal themselves to you. Plus, you'll be able to sight read chord charts and play bass lines as well as leads with a great deal of confidence.

 

[Bruiser Stone]

I would learn the patterns.

1) Muscle memory. It will be easier to incorporate these patterns into your playing when your muscles are familiar with them. Your brain will "go there" more easily once you have mastered the patterns.

2) Your brain is incredible. As you learn those scale patterns, your brain will begin to digest them and understand when/where/why/how to use them in your playing. You won't even consciously think about it. That "app will be running in the background" so to speak.

3) Nobody ever uses car analogies (sarcasm alert) so let's do it here.

Theory is only the map. Driving is when you apply the theory. If your theory (map) is limited, you will be forced to stay on the major (pun intended) highways. The more in-depth your theory (map) is, and the more your ability to APPLY said theory increases (the better you are able to drive), the more you'll be able to take the scenic route on your drives. Musically, you'll be able to take the backroads and not-so-well-beaten paths that will allow your musical journey to be more interesting to you, your bandmates, and even your audience.


Short version: Yep. It's totally worth the effort.

That was a really cool way of saying it.

 

[MVE]

What the heck is Millpad?

A single repeating “box pattern” (on a bass tuned in standard 4ths) that continues infinitely, so every degree of the scale is always in the same spot.

It requires you to stretch 5 notes with 4 fingers, which is a little uncomfortable at first, but if it helps you to learn scales in “box patterns” you can learn all 7 modes with only one pattern.