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Learning scales

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by jostego, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. bzytzo


    Jan 21, 2013

    Let's talk generally, putting aside anything which has gone before in this thread (which despite the heat has surely got brains racking overtime :)).

    An arpeggio is generally accepted to be a sequence of chord tones, ie the notes used to make up a chord, which are the odd-numbered notes in the major scale of the key - 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 15. For some reason these notes are generally known as tones.

    Here's a question. In jazz you might use a m7b5. The flat five is one of the key's chromatic notes. If you played the notes of this chord in a linear manner, would it be an arpeggio?

    Generally speaking.


    Where there's music theory discussion, there always a good chance of heat :).
  2. Groove Master

    Groove Master

    Apr 22, 2011
    Author of Groove 101, Slap 101 and Technique 101
    Unfortunately, Only on Talk Bass. Which is a shame :-(
  3. lfmn16

    lfmn16 Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2011
    charles town, wv

    There is no such thing as a 'regular' arpeggio. If someone is trying to redefine commonly understood terms (or making up new ones) chances are they don't know what they are talking about.
  4. Febs

    Febs Supporting Member

    May 7, 2007
    Philadelphia, PA
  5. bzytzo


    Jan 21, 2013
    Interesting, the previous few posts (not from me, I mean the others).

    Still learning myself, of course. I ain't no theory professor :).

    I asked about the flat five chromatic when used in the make up of a m7b5 chord. I go with Febs on this, which means (I conclude) that it becomes a chord tone when used in a chord. Therefore a linear usage of all the notes of that chord is an arpeggio, even though one of the notes is a chromatic.

    Do such semantics help you become a better player?

    They might, somehow.

    I have decided for myself, then, that an arpeggio can contain chromatic notes. Others might choose to see things differently.

    S'okay with me.
  6. Febs

    Febs Supporting Member

    May 7, 2007
    Philadelphia, PA
    You're making this more complicated than necessary. A Bm7(b5) is made up of the following notes: B D F A. Play them simultaneously and it's a chord. Play them sequentially and it's an arpeggio. The F is a chord tone in that particular chord.
  7. bzytzo


    Jan 21, 2013
    I was thinking from the Bm scale point of view, in which the fifth is F#, making the F a chromatic.

    That's why I had a think and decided, for myself, that the chromatic F becomes a chord tone.

    Your way of looking at it is simpler and better, no doubt about that.

    If it's in a chord, it's a chord tone.

    Think no further than that!

    I have adjusted my way of looking at this.

  8. Fergie Fulton

    Fergie Fulton

    Nov 22, 2008
    Retrovibe Artist rota
    Try seeing this point of view,

    What do you see as the difference between a triad, a chord, and an Arpegio?

    Ask yourself, why can the have the same notes yet be called different things?

    We associate two things with with all of the above, function and quality.

    Function and quality is not something a composer or player needs to make up, it is defined, and has been defined for centuries what this means.
    Yes new names get applied to these definitions, but the notes are the same....it is still asking us to play the same thing...in a way.

    As new instruments and technologies are developed, so does the use of theory.
    It has to move and keep up to be relevent, the 20th Century would have brought ideas and instruments in a few decades that previously developed over those centuries.

    One of these developments was the electric guitar techniques and technology. Listen to player "sweep pick" same technique as playing arpeggios, but you can sweep pick any notes, in any form, in any order you can form or play together as a run, or as a chord.
    So it may not be argeggios you hear, but it sound like them. So the detail is in the definition.

    It is not even about thinking chords are all made up ressonant notes, and runs are made up of resonant notes and dissonant notes, chords can have a dissonant resolution/note in function or a dissonant note in quality, and how they are used is for the composers mind to justify and for any listener to "get" or not "get".....as in the use of a b5, or a Diminished 5, or is that a #4...maybe an Augmented 4, or sus.aug4 (which i have only ever saw once used on a chart, but i questioned what sausage ment on the chart because it was written as susaug4), but again any of these can describe the use, but it is the most common or acceptable ones that get encouraged to be used.
    Again this does not need to be so, modern music may seem uniform, but with so mant terms and notations meaning the same thing, it best to learn what is wanted by all these terms and just related them back to there use, not any single term, symbol or language being used to define it.

    For me it would be b5, i see what is written, but my brain tells my hands "flat5". The same applies in most walks of life, and again if someone says to me the lowest open string, or the fattest open string, or the lowest note you can play etc...my brain always says "play E".
    From all this confusion of ifs and maybees, we need to add experience, experience will let you see it for what it is, and also for when people who write or notate it wrong actually mean....but that again could be subjective to experience...sorry:)

    As Febs writes, do not over complicate it, settle on understanding what is being asked for, yes you will learn complicated definitions. confusing definitions, but just reference them to a basic meaning and use.....as said experience will sort them out into how you want to hear or see them used.

    Check out the link, one of wikkis good points is it can have lots of relevent links to check out and follow to explain definitions and terms used or expand on a reference.:cool:



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