Learning the notes on the neck

[Auspis]

Hello again, I wish to discuss this shortly. I am learning the electric bass and the double bass at the same time.. and I have these 3 tools, tools as simple as it can be. (well..)

#1. A neck chart with all the notes for the 21 frets.
#2. A scale book with 120 scales on 6 pages: Minor, Major, Major pen, minor pen, Harmonic min, melodic min, blues, mix, dor, lyd.
3. A page with 56 chords for the bass.

I figure that these 3 tools should provide me with all the basics.

=============
For my question, right now, I focus my energy on remembering where the notes are on the neck in standard tuning EADG and so far it's difficult, it don't stick very much especially when it's time to practice the scales on the DB. I need to find the position on the fretted bass using the neck chart, play the note then match the note on the double bass to get the right position there. It's a bit painful so far.

.. I know the natural notes E A D G, I know some notes for some frets for some strings like:
String G: F2-A
String D: F2-E and F3-F
String A: F2-B and F3-C
String E: F1-G, F3-G, F5-A

I look at the neck while eating but it's just like multiplication tables, difficult to remember, don't know why.

Should I do this in the first place or do something else?

It's improving but very very slowly at a pace of 15 minutes per day approximately.. in fact often I spend the 15 minutes listening to YT and 3 minutes practicing... That too should improve over time too with the memorizing of some basic things.

My tools..
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[ahbass2500]

For me the best approach to learning notes on the neck was having to use them. Struggled learning notes until I started in middle school jazz band. Once I had to read music, learning note positions was easy.

With that in mind, I would find some easier music (without tablature). Start playing it. When you hit a note you do not know, figure out what it is. Ideally you figure out what it is without looking at the diagrams you have here, but you can use those. I think you will get better when you figure out how to reason where a note is on the neck rather than having to check a diagram and count frets.

At least that is how it went for me. Everyone learns different. Try bunch of things and see what sticks.

 

[RhinoBass]

Some may disagree with me, but my suggestion is to learn the forms of the various scales and arpeggios in the various keys and the individual notes will come after that. For example, if I am playing a tune in the key of G minor and I know that a G minor pentatonic scale works well in that particular tune, I don't think "G, Bb, C, D, F, G", I think of the various applicable scale patterns starting on G, so I only have to know where G is and not worry about the rest of it. If someone says, "Hey, can we play that tune in A minor instead" I don't have to think "Oh sh1t, now its A, C, D, E, F, A", I just shift it up two frets and go on with life.

 

[ahbass2500]

Some may disagree with me, but my suggestion is to learn the forms of the various scales and arpeggios in the various keys and the individual notes will come after that. For example, if I am playing a tune in the key of G minor and I know that a G minor pentatonic scale works well in that particular tune, I don't think "G, Bb, C, D, F, G", I think of the various applicable scale patterns starting on G, so I only have to know where G is and not worry about the rest of it. If someone says, "Hey, can we play that tune in A minor instead" I don't have to think "Oh sh1t, now its A, C, D, E, F, A", I just shift it up two frets and go on with life.

For me, this version of things came after the reading music side of things. Agree it is a valuable approach though and may be one that works better first for some.

 

[jallenbass]

Pick one note, such as E, and find it all over the fingerboard. When you can do that well, pick another note, preferably not right next to the E, like C#, and learn all of those. Continue until you have them all

 

[Akami]

Pick one note, such as E, and find it all over the fingerboard. When you can do that well, pick another note, preferably not right next to the E, like C#, and learn all of those. Continue until you have them all

Okay, I just started, but leaving E out since it's the only one that I know everywhere, but I'm finally going to give it a go, starting with your C#.

 

[Lionel Albert]

Some may disagree with me, but my suggestion is to learn the forms of the various scales and arpeggios in the various keys and the individual notes will come after that. For example, if I am playing a tune in the key of G minor and I know that a G minor pentatonic scale works well in that particular tune, I don't think "G, Bb, C, D, F, G", I think of the various applicable scale patterns starting on G, so I only have to know where G is and not worry about the rest of it. If someone says, "Hey, can we play that tune in A minor instead" I don't have to think "Oh sh1t, now its A, C, D, E, F, A", I just shift it up two frets and go on with life.

It can be efficient if you don't want to connect the dots but he is also learning the double bass.
It would better for him to connect all the things with open strings no matter if he is playing in Db since if he wants to play jazz lines or something like that, open strings will be always useful.

 

[ijump206]

Pick one note, such as E, and find it all over the fingerboard. When you can do that well, pick another note, preferably not right next to the E, like C#, and learn all of those. Continue until you have them all

Exactly this right here.

I would recommend not focusing on octave positions, as this can turn into a crutch where you can only find the notes on the E and A strings.

Learn the notes on each string separately. Don't just look at the frets, but rather play the notes and say their names while playing them. For enharmonic notes, say the sharp names going up and the flat names going down, or vice versa. Spend 10 minutes a day on each note, and 2-3 days per note. When you add a new note, quickly run through all the notes you have already learned at the beginning of your session. Don't do ANYTHING else while doing this. No watching YouTube. It will be quite tiring.

Here is a very detailed map of a workable method for getting this to stick. I love the idea of starting with C#. Starting with the less often used key notes is, in my opinion, a great idea. You will always be able to find E, A, D, G, etc. C sharp/D flat, F sharp/G flat, etc.... learning these first somehow makes the non-accidentals easier, in my experience.

Start on the E string.
-Find the lowest C# on the E string. Play that C# and say the words "C Sharp".
-Staying on the E string, find the highest C#. Play that C# and say the words "C Sharp".

Move to the A string.
-Find the lowest C# on the A string. Play that C# and say the words "C Sharp".
-Staying on the A string, find the highest C#. Play that C# and say the words "C Sharp".

Move to the D string.
-Find the lowest C# on the D string. Play that C# and say the words "C Sharp".
-Staying on the D string, find the highest C#. Play that C# and say the words "C Sharp". (may not exist given 21 fret e-bass, could be on upright)

Move to the G string.
-Find the lowest C# on the G string. Play that C# and say the words "C Sharp".
-Staying on the G string, find the highest C#. Play that C# and say the words "C Sharp".

Look away from the fretboard. Now we are going to do the same thing, but backwards. Also, we are going to call the note Db on the way down.

Stay on the G string.
-Find the highest Db on the G string. Play that Db and say the words "D Flat".
-Staying on the G string, find the lowest Db. Play that Db and say the words "D Flat".

Move to the D string.
-Find the highest Db on the D string (if there is one). Play that Db and say the words "D Flat".
-Staying on the D string, find the lowest Db. Play that Db and say the words "D Flat".

Move to the A string.
-Find the highest Db on the A string. Play that Db and say the words "D Flat".
-Staying on the A string, find the lowest Db. Play that Db and say the words "D Flat".

Move to the E string.
-Find the highest Db on the E string. Play that Db and say the words "D Flat".
-Staying on the E string, find the lowest Db. Play that Db and say the words "D Flat".

When you have C#/Db, move to another note by some interval. Major second, Perfect fifth, Major third, whatever works for you.

Have fun!!!

 

[MechaSparky]

There's only 12 notes - how hard can it be?

 

[MVE]

There are a lot faster and easier ways to learn the notes, but the best way to do it is to print a standard notation chart of the Major scale in all 15 keys.
Put a click on 60 bpm.
Start reading them around the circle of 5ths and saying all the notes out loud to the metronome. (Its harder than its sounds - this alone will probably take 2-3 days of practice to get down)
Then start playing the notes while saying them out loud - to the metronome at 60.
(It will probably take a few weeks before you get through all 15 major scales without making any stops or mistakes.)
Again, it seems a bit masochistic and there are probably faster ways to remember that the third dot on the A string is an E, but if you really want to learn this stuff, its the way to go.
Good luck

 

[ijump206]

Some may disagree with me, but my suggestion is to learn the forms of the various scales and arpeggios in the various keys and the individual notes will come after that. For example, if I am playing a tune in the key of G minor and I know that a G minor pentatonic scale works well in that particular tune, I don't think "G, Bb, C, D, F, G", I think of the various applicable scale patterns starting on G, so I only have to know where G is and not worry about the rest of it. If someone says, "Hey, can we play that tune in A minor instead" I don't have to think "Oh sh1t, now its A, C, D, E, F, A", I just shift it up two frets and go on with life.

I see this as a "Yes And" scenario.

You want to know all the notes on the fretboard.

You also want to know all the scales and relationships to a given root note without having to think about the note names, from any position.

I think almost entirely in scale degree numbers when playing any non-reading gig. Just sitting over here playing R, 6, 4, 5, whatever the key is.

I also need to read charts and walk that bass, so I need to know where I am at all times. Both of these skills can be overlaid ontop of one another. It's quite a zen feeling when both systems are running simultaneously in the background of my brain and I can really focus on messing up the rhythm instead of the notes.

 

[wompwomp]

I'm not sure I can find the Quora answer I cribbed this from BUT i've been using circle of fourths over the past couple of weeks to finally learn the full fretboad.

with all due disclaimers and citation here's how that quora dude set it up (he had expanded this for guitar but I use it on a 4 string BG):

start at G, 3rd fret on the low string. play through the G major scale: 3, 5 on the E string, then 2, 3, 5 on the A string, next will be 2, 4, 5 on the D string and finally 2, 4, and 5 on the G string. that's G major with a few added notes, for every position you will have 11 notes. best to say the notes as you work the scale but definitely you want to associate the shape with the position and the name.

the gimmick here is that you will always be starting from the same position, G, at the 3rd fret of the low string.

now do the next key in the circle: from G we get to C. play the C major scale as follows: starting on the E string play 3, 5, then 2, 3, 5 on the A string, then 2, 3, 5 on the D and finally 2, 4, 5 on the G string. C Major.

notice how you only flatten one note moving from G to C, the f# becomes f natural. also notice the scale doesn't start on the tonic it starts on what is now the 5th. so you are not only building knowledge of note positions but appreciating interval relationships as well.

now build your own subsequent major scales for F, Bb, and Eb all starting from the same G note on the low string.

you will end up with 5 scale shapes starting from G. the next key in the circle will start on the 4th fret of the low string. Ab major. you can go through those 5 shapes all the way up the board through all keys several times. and build a nice association with all keys and their component notes.

Now here's my addition which I think may be very constructive for you, doing the same exercise on ONE STRING:

after you've figured out the first exercise across the strings for all of the scales that start at G on the low string move the entire idea to the G string. In a major scale the sequence of intervals is always the same: whole whole half whole whole whole half. so to build G play the open string, 2nd fret, 4th fret, 5th fret, 7th, 9th, 11th and finally the octave at 12.

now do the next key again using only the notes from open to 12 on the G string. for C major those would be open, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 9th, 10th, and 12. again note that G and C share all the same notes except again the f# is flattened to f natural.

you can go the other way with the circle of fifths. saying the notes will help, always be consciously aware of what key you are scaling, give yourself gimmicks like walk G major up then C major down then F major up then Bb major down etc. actively try to perceive the keys through the displaced degrees. think about the relationship of the keys in terms of the notes they share etc. have fun good luck

 

[JonathanPDX]

I have a system that I used a lot back when I was teaching:

First, E/F and B/C are the only places where there is no #/b in between the notes, so if you remember that you can work your way from any note to any other note on the same string even without memorizing anything.

Start with the first 5 frets. Open E is "zero", following our pattern the first fret would be F, then a #/b, then the 3rd fret would be G, and so on. To really master this, we take a piece of lined notebook paper, draw the strings, and write the name of each natural (not sharp or flat) note on the appropriate string and fret. We can add the other notes later, but for now we start with the natural ones. Open string through the fifth fret, string by string. Writing it by hand and working it out makes you learn it much deeper than just looking at a diagram someone else already made.

Once you've mapped it out you can play them, saying each note name out loud and referring to your diagram only when you need to, or to make sure you got it right.

After this you can repeat the process for the next 5 frets, and so on, and it will become easier each step. If you master the first 5 everything else comes fast.

From there you can study patterns, intervals, and ask questions like "If I grab this 4-fret block how many iterations of each note can I access without shifting my hand position, and where are they located?" or "How many locations of a single note are on my instrument? How many different places can I play a C? Of those, which ones are the same pitch, and how many different octaves of C do I have?"

Overall, working it out yourself and writing your own diagrams by hand are going to reach mastery MUCH faster than looking at diagrams and charts written by other people.

 

[Telenic]

I learned the notes by learning to read music. After getting somewhat competent at reading in every position, I realized I knew all the notes on the fretboard. That was a bonus I didn't expect.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Charts you posted just gave me a massive headache. I'm hoping it's not a stroke. Some of the posts I read before this didn't help, though there were some moments of sanity, which I will repeat, and amplify.

First, focus on the first 5 frets. Forget the double bass, come back to that later. Your open strings are EADG. Going down the strings, this is part of the cycle of fourths. Going backwards, up the strings, it's the cycle of fifths. Learn the cycle of fourths and fifths. It's not hard. Now learn the 3rd fret. GCFBb. Again cycle of fourths, just continued. Use the cycle to learn all notes up to fifth fret. Then go to the 7th fret, you are going to see a pattern.

The board moves in 4ths throughout all ranges as long as you stay on a fret line. No matter how many strings your bass has.

Trying to memorize a board from an overall chart is the worst mistake you can make. How do I know that? Cause that's what some dumb teacher gave me when I was 18, in 1972.

 

[ryco]

I highly recommend this instruction book.
It is designed for both electric bass guitar and double bass [upright].

FUN book! Very well thought out; easy, instructive, and good ideas and little lessons for creating and improvising your own bass lines!
Check it out! Wish it was around when I was learning electric bass and stand up!

https://www.shermusic.com/0961470100.php

 

[Wasnex]

The idea of learning the entire fingerboard for upright and bass guitar at the same time is overwhelming if you ask me. Are you using the same fingering system on both? I started with Simandl 1,2,4 fingering on upright. When I started bass guitar I continued with the same fingering system. Eventually it became clear that I would benefit from using one finger per fret on bass guitar. Not possible for upright as my hands are not big enough.

Most people learn a relatively small section of the fingerboard when they start. If you have music that requires a section that you don't know well, you work it out slowly and then play it in. There is no expectation for a beginner to sight read notes that are way up on the neck. But within a short time you should get fairly proficient at reading notes low on the neck.

A challenging aspect of knowing the fingerboard is enharmonics. For example F# is at exactly the same place as Gb.

A multifaceted approach should be used. In other words you learn the fingerboard in a range of different ways. Reviewing the neck chart is one way. Another way is playing scales while naming the notes. Another is reading music or etudes. Another is interval training.


Each of us has a unique way of thinking. So the learning approaches that work well for me may not be optimal for you. My point is you may not benefit equally from every possible approach.

Mastering the fingerboard takes time and it's likely your fluency will vary depending on the music you play. Here is an example to illustrate my point. On average, string players are more likely to play in sharp keys and horn players are more likely to play in flat keys. My job involved playing bass in concert band. For awhile we seemed to play a lot of pieces in Gb major, which is enharmonic to F# major. Because I was frequently playing in Gb, I became very proficient in the key. It's been years since I played a piece in Gb, so my proficiency is no longer high.

 

[BassicJazzy]

I'm not sure I can find the Quora answer I cribbed this from BUT i've been using circle of fourths over the past couple of weeks to finally learn the full fretboad.

with all due disclaimers and citation here's how that quora dude set it up (he had expanded this for guitar but I use it on a 4 string BG):

start at G, 3rd fret on the low string. play through the G major scale: 3, 5 on the E string, then 2, 3, 5 on the A string, next will be 2, 4, 5 on the D string and finally 2, 4, and 5 on the G string. that's G major with a few added notes, for every position you will have 11 notes. best to say the notes as you work the scale but definitely you want to associate the shape with the position and the name.

the gimmick here is that you will always be starting from the same position, G, at the 3rd fret of the low string.

now do the next key in the circle: from G we get to C. play the C major scale as follows: starting on the E string play 3, 5, then 2, 3, 5 on the A string, then 2, 3, 5 on the D and finally 2, 4, 5 on the G string. C Major.

notice how you only flatten one note moving from G to C, the f# becomes f natural. also notice the scale doesn't start on the tonic it starts on what is now the 5th. so you are not only building knowledge of note positions but appreciating interval relationships as well.

now build your own subsequent major scales for F, Bb, and Eb all starting from the same G note on the low string.

you will end up with 5 scale shapes starting from G. the next key in the circle will start on the 4th fret of the low string. Ab major. you can go through those 5 shapes all the way up the board through all keys several times. and build a nice association with all keys and their component notes.

Now here's my addition which I think may be very constructive for you, doing the same exercise on ONE STRING:

after you've figured out the first exercise across the strings for all of the scales that start at G on the low string move the entire idea to the G string. In a major scale the sequence of intervals is always the same: whole whole half whole whole whole half. so to build G play the open string, 2nd fret, 4th fret, 5th fret, 7th, 9th, 11th and finally the octave at 12.

now do the next key again using only the notes from open to 12 on the G string. for C major those would be open, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 9th, 10th, and 12. again note that G and C share all the same notes except again the f# is flattened to f natural.

you can go the other way with the circle of fifths. saying the notes will help, always be consciously aware of what key you are scaling, give yourself gimmicks like walk G major up then C major down then F major up then Bb major down etc. actively try to perceive the keys through the displaced degrees. think about the relationship of the keys in terms of the notes they share etc. have fun good luck

Yes, the only difference I would make is not including scales until you have a basic understanding of the fretboard first. Definitely once you start on scales doing so on one string first is the way to go. Got to learn the intervals, and that's the best way to do so, or to check your multi-string scales out for accuracy.

For scales, I like to do them above the line from a starting point, below the line, and half & half. I like to do them starting on each string, same rules. A lot of bass players don't know their descending scales when they start on a higher string. Last, I like to do them in intervals, 3rds, 5ths, and sometimes 6ths. Ands always shift between the major and relative minor scales just to amplify and extend, reinforce your scale accuracy and fluency.

This may be going beyond what the OP is ready for though.

Burn those charts.

 

[BassicJazzy]

The idea of learning the entire fingerboard for upright and bass guitar at the same time is overwhelming if you ask me. Are you using the same fingering system on both? I started with Simandl 1,2,4 fingering on upright. When I started bass guitar I continued with the same fingering system. Eventually it became clear that I would benefit from using one finger per fret on bass guitar. Not possible for upright as my hands are not big enough.

Most people learn a relatively small section of the fingerboard when they start. If you have music that requires a section that you don't know well, you work it out slowly and then play it in. There is no expectation for a beginner to sight read notes that are way up on the neck. But within a short time you should get fairly proficient at reading notes low on the neck.

A challenging aspect of knowing the fingerboard is enharmonics. For example F# is at exactly the same place as Gb.

A multifaceted approach should be used. In other words you learn the fingerboard in a range of different ways. Reviewing the neck chart is one way. Another way is playing scales while naming the notes. Another is reading music or etudes. Another is interval training.


Each of us has a unique way of thinking. So the learning approaches that work well for me may not be optimal for you. My point is you may not benefit equally from every possible approach.

Mastering the fingerboard takes time and it's likely your fluency will vary depending on the music you play. Here is an example to illustrate my point. On average, string players are more likely to play in sharp keys and horn players are more likely to play in flat keys. My job involved playing bass in concert band. For awhile we seemed to play a lot of pieces in Gb major, which is enharmonic to F# major. Because I was frequently playing in Gb, I became very proficient in the key. It's been years since I played a piece in Gb, so my proficiency is no longer high.

Yep. I only know enough about upright from watching lessons delivered on that instrument, never played one, but the management of "position" on that neck and knowing the range of the position is so important that it makes no sense to me to learn both that and electric at same time. They only play a 3 note vertical range before they shift. Your story of playing in one key reminded me that I always wanted to play in E becuase my teacher drew the fingerboard chart in E, since it was the view we all have of the full board. E is one of the worst keys to play bass in, sucks. Looking at the board in this way is just a terrible way to load it into your memory. Better to be able to calculate on the fly, and only memorize key anchor points. So much faster, more fluent.

I realize you know this, just ranting. Just a ranting, old man here.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Listen to what @Wasnex and @MVE and @JonathanPDX say.

My input is to learn a simple major scale pattern across three strings and play it around the cycle of 4ths.

Watch a Jim Stinnet video to learn that.

I also think learning single string scales is a great way to learn the fretboard and learn to shift at the same time.

Also, learning to play simple melodies helped me enjoy playing: Happy Birthday, Amazing Grace, Ode to Joy, whatever. It’s really gratifying to play something simple and beautiful from beginning to end, and would be a great break from the process you're going through right now.

Good luck and have fun!