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learning the viol as a former bass player

groooooove

Supporting Member
Dec 17, 2008
9,046
6,893
Long Island, NY
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so glad go see this new subforum!

just had to make a first post and say, if you are considering it, you should do it.

i’ve been playing a few years now and consider it the best musical decision of my life.

happy to answer any “getting started” questions if you have any.
 
Wow, that’s s lot of strings.

The upright bass we sll know and love is not really a big violin. The. violin, viola, and cello are one family. The bass is actually more of a viol than a violin -sloping shoulders, narrower body, etc.

The reason is that an upscaled violin is too cumbersome to play, and would be a nightmare to transport.

…Ok, even more of a nightmare to transport….
 
Wow, that’s s lot of strings.

The upright bass we sll know and love is not really a big violin. The. violin, viola, and cello are one family. The bass is actually more of a viol than a violin -sloping shoulders, narrower body, etc.

The reason is that an upscaled violin is too cumbersome to play, and would be a nightmare to transport.

…Ok, even more of a nightmare to transport….

that is correct - with the violone being the in-between basses of today and viols of the previous generation.

Biggest thing i want the bass community that is gamba-curious to know is that the viola da gamba society of america has a rental program. it's very reasonably priced and the instrument i rented to learn on was great.

as always, hooking up with a good teacher helps, and the gamba society can do that for you as well.
 
that is correct - with the violone being the in-between basses of today and viols of the previous generation.

Biggest thing i want the bass community that is gamba-curious to know is that the viola da gamba society of america has a rental program. it's very reasonably priced and the instrument i rented to learn on was great.

as always, hooking up with a good teacher helps, and the gamba society can do that for you as well.
Even if I WAS gamba-curious, I'd never admit it here...

And I'm NOT, for the record...

I'm NOT...
 
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@groooooove tell us a bit about your transition process, adjusting to the gut frets, etc. I’d love to hear what that was like.
how this started is sort of funny,

I was in the workshop of edward maday, who made my double bass. I believe it was in for a soundpost adjustment or something. He also makes viols. I was aware of the instrument, and always thought it'd be cool to try one. He had one in-progress on the bench and I started asking questions - what they cost, how they're tuned, etc. He told me what I just shared here - the gamba society will help you get started. So i made a call or two, paid a rental fee, met a wonderful teacher, and learned my basics.

the frets are an almost zero-adjustment. for me, at least. I grew up playing bass guitar and guitar. Actual gut frets can be rather fussy. they come loose and need to have some paper or toothpick wedged in there to keep it snug. I own instruments with gut as well as nylon, and i personally prefer nylon. they last longer and stay tight throughout the year. The negative is that they do wear on the strings a bit faster, but it's not that bad.
Either fret material is very easy to adjust tuning when needed. just push it up or down.

The bow...

the grip seems insane at first. It's not a german grip at all. There are some historical records of viol players playing an overhanded baroque bow, but this would've been weird exceptions only. I always assumed i'd mess about with the correct grip but just play like a french bow since that's what I know. Now that i'm a few years in, no way. The proper grip is the right way for a reason. The weirdest part is that your up bow is the louder stroke, so imagine playing an 8th note pickup (down bow) - then up bow on beat one. It feels weird at first - but you do get used to it with time!!

String crossings are a huge flex in gamba world. one must practice separating the push-pull bow stroke with the in-out motion required to cross strings. it's not like a bass, when you are negotiating around 7 strings, it takes a specific technique, without which you'll be damaging your shoulder most likely. You'll notice virtuosic repertoire often featuring leaps of major and minor 10ths, for this reason.

the tuning..

honestly? I thought learning a whole new fingerboard would be a disaster. a few months of daily practice and I was good enough to start playing some repertoire.

the clef...
alto and bass clef, with many changes on the page typically. if you don't already read alto clef, you must learn it. An annoyance, but worth it. P.S. you'll be reading a lot of chords so you need to *really* know the clef.

the payoff...

the repertoire, sound, and versatility of this instrument is beyond reproach. Some of histories finest performers and composers knew this instrument well. J.S. Bach's mentor, D. Buxtehude, is holding a viol in his only confirmed portrait. G.P. Telemann was a virtuoso on this instrument. G.F. Abel, a renowned viol player, was such a skilled composer than some of his symphonies were wrongly attributed to Mozart for many years.

the catch..

I'm in a unique position. I teach orchestra in a public school. I don't need to play gigs for money anymore. I bring my instrument to my day job and play with my students for most of the day, and during my lunch. I have a lot of practice time built into my day job. So, for practical reasons my lifestyle has allowed me to fall in love with this instrument and pursue it to the extent that I have.



Something else I love about this instrument is how easy it is to arrange for. Large range, frets make intonation a non-issue for the most part. This video was recorded around 14 months after the first time i'd ever touched one. Note- I am actually playing with pretty poor right hand technique here, but I think this is a good example of a bass player learning the viol. This instrument is a charlie ogle (similar to Shen in the bass community) and was my rental from the gamba society - not a bad sound at all!

This post is getting long, as you can tell I can go on all day. Any specific questions I'm happy to discuss!
 
I've been playing gamba for years. I consider myself solidly mediocre. I don't find the technical aspects overwhelming in the least and the repertoire is ginormous. The tuning makes it intuitive to play for a DB player, and for me the transition from German bow to gamba is natural. One caveat: don't let the "Earlier Than Thou" crowd dissuade you from just playing the thing. If you really get into it you'll know what I mean.
 
I know this is a music forum, but I am always thankful to see some dogs in the pics.
between my bass playing and gamba playing life, there was a number of years I owned and operated a dog training business. I'm too busy nowadays for any dogs other than my own, the cockapoo (ringo) pictured. As always, if anyone wants to talk training my DMs are open!! I miss solving problems, "aha" moments, and follow-up photos 4-5 months later of a happy dog thriving.


I've been playing gamba for years. I consider myself solidly mediocre. I don't find the technical aspects overwhelming in the least and the repertoire is ginormous. The tuning makes it intuitive to play for a DB player, and for me the transition from German bow to gamba is natural. One caveat: don't let the "Earlier Than Thou" crowd dissuade you from just playing the thing. If you really get into it you'll know what I mean.

The "earlier than thou" folks are a nightmare.

For those not aware, being viewed as a 'historical instrument,' there is a huge portion of viol players who's primary focus is historical accuracy. Many of them are very fine players.

but, they scoff at anything but the "most pure," which fits the snooty classical-music stereotype unfortunately.

But there is also a great community of real musicians who treat the instrument like an instrument. it's just a bowed guitar, really.

I've already encountered eye-rolls and weird remarks over the fact that I tune to 440. Viols are typically 415. But, I play with modern pianos, guitars, my students violins and cellos, It's just not practical for me to tune to historical temperament.
 
Love the sound of these instruments. I'm quite happy to already play an amazing inconvenient large finnicky instrument, but if I had the means & time, I would absolutely dabble in gamba or violone.

"earlier than thou" folks

For those interested in the other direction, check out Chloe Sobek, an experimental violone player who improvises with electronics and objects (particularly bone) - Sound Artist | Chloesobek.com
 
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I'm in a unique position. I teach orchestra in a public school.
Have you come across Pedro Funes? He was an ?orchestra? teacher in Houston, and started an extra-curricular viol ensemble with his students. They've been getting some press: after a few years he took them to Conclave. (I used to see him around Austin occasionally, have played with him, but good thing not with me on viol. I'm pretty bad at it.)
 
I've already encountered eye-rolls and weird remarks over the fact that I tune to 440. Viols are typically 415. But, I play with modern pianos, guitars, my students violins and cellos, It's just not practical for me to tune to historical temperament.
I tune to 415 when playing with other viol players. But if you want to play, say, a CPE Bach sonata with piano, which is historically "okay", you have to tune to 440. The bass viol sounds great with piano, even with earlier works.
 
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Have you come across Pedro Funes? He was an ?orchestra? teacher in Houston, and started an extra-curricular viol ensemble with his students. They've been getting some press: after a few years he took them to Conclave. (I used to see him around Austin occasionally, have played with him, but good thing not with me on viol. I'm pretty bad at it.)

Yes I know Pedro a bit - we've spoken via instagram.

I'm actively in the process of trying to do the same in my district.

My trouble is, our district is K-6, the middle/high schools are a separate entity. I'd love to actually teach a group of high school kids to play and do some concerts, but at this time it seems unlikely.

That being said, if I did it in my own district, we might have an ensemble of 6th graders, which could be very cool to have younger kids playing. We'll see!
 
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