Learning to transcribe bass lines: How do you hear the root when it isn't the first note?

[LoveTheBassMan]

I'm a novice bass player focusing on ear training to improve my ability to transcribe bass lines. Right now, I'm working on recognizing intervals from the root—root to 2nd, root to 3rd, root to 4th, and so on up to the octave.

However, I get confused when a bass line does not begin on the root of the chord. For example, a line might start with the 3rd, 5th, root, 4th, 5th or 5th, 2nd, ♭7, root. I find it much easier when the bass line outlines the chord starting from the root. My instinct is to assume the first note I hear (the 3rd, 5th, 2nd, or 7th) is the root, which throws off my interval recognition.

What methods did you use to learn to recognize intervals and transcribe bass lines when the line does not start on the root? How did you train your ear to identify the true root or tonal center when the first note is a different chord tone?

I want to develop the ability to transcribe bass lines when they begin on chord tones other than the root while still being able to hear how they outline the underlying chord progression.

 

[mambo4]

Disclaimer: For me, transcription is not an ear training exercise. I transcribe to

• practice notation literacy
• learn a part more quickly
• analyze and deconstruct the ideas used

So I just cheat and look up the chords.

But an aspect of ear training that seems under appreciated , or at least not as often discussed, is that memorizing the sound of common chord progressions is probably more useful than individual interval recognition, or static harmony recognition. Once you can recognize the chords in a section as I - vi - ii V7 or I- IV- V , it is easy to fill in the blanks or at least reduce your possible note choices. It does take a bit of theory knowledge. The PDF linked in my signature covers it well.

 

[Vociferous]

Practicing the modes was critical for me to be able to detect where I am in relation to the root note. Sometimes, though, I still need to see it on paper, because of substitutions and inferences.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Try a whole-part-whole approach.
Listen to the entire piece, identify the tones that feel like a type of temporary home to find the roots, and identify the most home feeling tone to find the key, often the last chord of the A section, if the piece doesn't start on the chord of the key.
If you have the key, finding the roots of the harmony chords is easier.
So listen big, listen small, then repeat.
That helps me.

 

[bass player 53]

Bravo to you for doing ear training.
Listen to the whole tune first and identify the key. Understanding the general structure of popular tunes helps here. Does the tune, after the intro, start with a 2-5-1, for example, if the tune is in the key of C, do the chords progress Dm7, G7, Cmaj., with or without altered notes?
If the tune is in C minor, does the tune
start with Dmin7b5, G7b9, Cmin?
After you have mapped out the changes, go back to the chords. Is the bass line playing the root, third, or 5th?
Is the bass line walking through the changes linearly or is it arpeggiating?
After a while, you will be able to hear how the bass line is walking through the groups of changes, just by listening. Be patient and practice this. It will reward you greatly. If you don’t hear how the changes are grouped and analyzed, there are a million YouTube videos to explain almost every popular tune.

 

[bass player 53]

Disclaimer: For me, transcription is not an ear training exercise. I transcribe to

• practice notation literacy
• learn a part more quickly
• analyze and deconstruct the ideas used

So I just cheat and look up the chords.

But an aspect of ear training that seems under appreciated , or at least not as often discussed, is that memorizing the sound of common chord progressions is probably more useful than individual interval recognition, or static harmony recognition. Once you can recognize the chords in a section as I - vi - ii V7 or I- IV- V , it is easy to fill in the blanks or at least reduce your possible note choices. It does take a bit of theory knowledge. The PDF linked in my signature covers it well.

Recognizing groups of chord changes away from your instrument is absolutely critical for all musicians. This cannot be overstated. It is fundamental for all types of music, from orchestral to Metal. Recognizing the sequence and type of chord (quality)- this is the key to the kingdom.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Trying to convey this to bandmates is just as tough. If Tomorrow Never Comes is in the key of G but the first chord is ii / Am…you should see their heads explode. I cheat and use on-line charts and YouTube tutorials where they actually show you what they’re doing and why.

 

[bass player 53]

Trying to convey this to bandmates is just as tough. If Tomorrow Never Comes is in the key of G but the first chord is ii / Am…you should see their heads explode. I cheat and use on-line charts and YouTube tutorials where they actually show you what they’re doing and why.

There was a long thread, or two, about key signatures, tonal centers, etc.
Yes, songs don’t have to start or even end in the chord of the key. There are so many Beatles tunes that a lot (most) of us know that do this. So too, for orchestral and ‘classical’ piano solo music. Again, understanding the structure of the chord changes and movement is fundamental.

 

[Jazzdogg]

I agree with Mambo: I learn by going from the general to the specific; I have to be able to hear the chords, and the intervals between them, i.e., "the changes," before the individual note choices that comprise a bass line will make sense to me.

Learning rudimentary piano enabled me to think about music in terms of chords and intervals in ways that playing the bass, by itself, did not.

When I'm playing the bass, the notes I play are explicit, while the other notes that constitute the chords are implicit; when playing chords on piano every note is explicit, which enables me to hear the entire chord and select individual notes to try and hear what they sound like when played on bass to accompany the chord changes.

Zoom out to understand the chords in the context of the song before zooming in to select the notes you will play on your bass.

I hope this helps a little.

 

[yodedude2]

i.m.e., a song is much more likely to end on the 1 (the root) than it is to begin on the 1.

 

[Wez Yo Bice]

Disclaimer: I'm not a teacher but I play in three different country bands.
Yesterday, i spent the afternoon listening and playing along to Johnny Cash, Buck Owens, Don Gibson, Merle Haggard, Waylon Jennings, Lefty Frizzell, & Faron Young. I got some flatwound strings for my bass. I'm just in love with the tone.
I'm not ness. transposing, i'm first finding the key, by waiting for the phrase or verse to resolve. Then quickly determining a voicing. Then determining if the tune goes to the 4 or the 5 chord. All afternoon, the only half tricky chord was a 6. BTW I was starting out playing 1/5 bass, but if I had enough tune, I'd start walking. Cool thing about YouTube, you can rewind and play it again. Make all the clams you want. Play with voicings, etc. Lastly, folks poopoo country stuff, but here's the thing, if you can decode this simple stuff, you can sit in with anyone in Country music. I play Blues and Classic Rock, too, and hey that stuff is alot of 2 and three chord too. 1st the key, then the 1st chord change, then the second chord change, and so on, and so forth. It ain't rocket surgery.

 

[Wez Yo Bice]

Zoom out to understand the chords in the context of the song before zooming in to select the notes you will play on your bass.

I hope this helps a little.

Well put. Establish the chord progression 1st, then the voicing. It may be just the root. It may be as much as a pentatonic arpeggio. I still think in terms of chords, and chord progressions.

 

[Winton]

Singing the intervals. Find an ear training exercise book and do it as often as you’re able to. It’s the basic nutrition for musicians. This may be the least fun method but that traditional ear training method really works. I’m personally a solfege guy but whatever toots your flute.

 

[grubdumpling]

I use a bit of borrowed education to figure things out for myself, as my wife has all the training and can just listen and know. However, there will always be a note in the bassline that feels like the "resolution", or the end of a sentence for lack of better language. Sometimes it's easier to listen for that one note that sounds tense or like it's at the edge of a cliff, and find the note used to release that tension. Or ask my wife.

Or do it the hard way, write down every note that the bassline uses, write them as sharps and naturals, no flats. Then compare to the notes in the keys that use those sharps. This is what I understand my wife does in her head.

 

[VicDiesel]

However, I get confused when a bass line does not begin on the root of the chord.

How do you know it's not the root?

It feels like you're thinking about this backward. Example, I just transcribed something where the bass opens by playing a pickup B-D# and then the melody comes in and the chord is Em for several measures. I conclude that the song is in Em, and the opening notes are 5 and 7#.

So: first find the key, and then name notes relative to that. The first note of a bass part can be anything.

 

[MegaSwing]

How? Because the movement in the progression is trying to return to the tonic, as in ii-V-I.

 

[Wez Yo Bice]

I didn't invent this, a friend showed me how if you play a chromatic scale, you're only one note from being right. If you stop, you better be on a correct note. But that note could be a harmony note so. . . . .. . keep moving. But stay in time too. Someone should mention, though shalt not jump time with all this chord theory. ( I said the T word)

 

[logdrum]

The third is really the most important note in a chord and many times as a bass player this is the substitution you are going to see like D/F#,. The best way to figure out is to hear the melody of the song, if it applies. The second substitution I see a lot to use the second or 9th and the seventh so like A/B or A/G

Some bass lines are ostinato or we call it groove . It can be an arpeggio with an inversion of the chord or a chromatic line leading to the 3rd or 5th

Also look at the bar, what you think as the first note may be a lead note before the 1,

Minor specially progression made around a Dorian scale can be tricky.

The trick is to listen to as many bass liens and songs as possible. Unless you are a good transcriber you may be doing it completely wrong. That is not meant to be an insult or put down. The more you get better at recognizing harmonic structure and progression, the better you can transcribe/ Listen to a lot of songs and music

Good luck

 

[Wasnex]

In all honesty, when I am working out a bassline, I pretty much just hear the pitch and match it. Once I find my place, I have pretty decent relative pitch on the instrument...much stronger than by ear. So I will listen to the bass line, try to hum the bass line, and then try to play the bass line.

You can hear intervals linearly or vertically. By linearly, I mean you relate the current not to the previous note...You also may also anticipate the sound of the current note to the next note in your mind's ear. You might call this the melodic aspect of the bass line. So for example, A to B is a major 3rd or up 2 frets on the same string. A up to D is a perfect fourth, same fret up one string, or up 5 frets on the same string. When I am working out a bass line, this sort of mental process what I primarily use.

By vertically, I mean you relate to the bass to the stacked chord tones, which relates to the harmonic aspects of the bass line..

Root position: Root in bass (1,3,5,7)
1st Inversion: 3rd in bass (3,5,7,1)
2nd Inversion: 5th in bass (5,7,1,3)
3rd Inversion: 7th in bass (7,1,3,5)

A competent transcriber will be able to recognize the chord inversion based on how the music sounds. It's not just one approach, Instead you integrate the harmonic and melodic aspects of each note, and also draw on knowledge of voice leading/tendency tones. Being a competent musician involves learning and automating multiple interrelated skills.

The process for someone who is highly skilled become pretty automatic. You hear something and pretty much know the note in the bass and how the rest of the notes are spaced above it. This is way beyond my level. However, when I majored in music, I could really sense the possibility of achieving this level of fluency. Unfortunately I did continue in the program, so I never got there.

 

[VicDiesel]

if you play a chromatic scale, you're only one note from being right.

Kinda. If you're in a minor chord and you play the major 3rd, you're not one note off, youre *wrong*.