Leaving your bass in a car

[202dy]

If the same question was posted on the Hardware, Setup, and Repair forum the answers would be quite different.

The rule for storing a guitar in a car is the same as for small children and dogs. If you wouldn't do it to them, don't do it to your guitar.

 

[HD007]

Definitely give us an update and enjoy your trip.

 

[honeyiscool]

Why not detune it?

Guitars establish an equilibrium with themselves over time with various parts expanding and contracting and tension being present. To remove string tension completely in the misguided belief that this somehow helps survive extreme temperature changes is naive. There's a reason that every guitar in the world is shipped tuned when shipped from the factory.

 

[honeyiscool]

That has to be the first time anyone has ever said that about Scotland! We're having a freakishly good summer but forecasts are for it to cool down again this week.

My friend from Glasgow told me about this phenomenon:
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[saabfender]

Sorry, but I have to advise otherwise.
The biggest threat to a bass in a hot car is that the glue lines will plasticize.
When this happens, it is the string tension that causes
This same behavior forms the basis of a widely used technique for correcting warp and/or adjusting the relief
of necks without trussrods (i.e. old Martin guitars). It is a real and meaningful way to change the resting shape of a neck.
Most folks don't realize the relatively low temperatures at which these glues start to lose strength.
I've removed fingerboards from 30 year old basses using nothing more than a 100w lightbulb in a desk lamp.

On any decent neck, particularly one with a modern-style truss rod such as the Ibanez, removing the strings entirely
will not 'destabilize' the neck. Older guitars (such as Gibsons, in your example) with a single-acting rod would sometimes
react slightly more to changes like this since the truss rod design depends on compression of the neck wood itself.
However, even in that case, there is nothing at play that should prevent anyone from removing all the strings from their instrument.

In OP's situation I would absolutely advise slacking the strings AND the truss rod, and putting the neck at a neutral position without any
tension, external or internal. Given the temperatures at play, he should probably be fine at that point.
But the risk of leaving a strung/tuned instrument in a potentially hot car far outweighs the risk, if any, of 'destabilizing' the neck by slacking the strings.

Cheers,
Martin

Your points are well-taken. But "using nothing more than a 100w lightbulb" is no kind of comparison. A few seconds on a 100W bulb and you'll have a burn for three days.

 

[honeyiscool]

The rule for storing a guitar in a car is the same as for small children and dogs. If you wouldn't do it to them, don't do it to your guitar.

That rule sounds sensible, but it simply doesn't really reflect the fact that the great majority of mass produced instruments begin their lives having spent weeks, if not months, in shipping containers. If this was somehow fatal, the industry would have developed a better process by now.

Guitars are not pets or children. They are a lot sturdier.

 

[saabfender]

I hope the wood in my bass had a shady spot in the kiln.

 

[Keith Guitars]

Your points are well-taken. But "using nothing more than a 100w lightbulb" is no kind of comparison. A few seconds on a 100W bulb and you'll have a burn for three days.

In direct contact, yes, but that's not what I'm describing.
I put mine in a desk lamp anywhere from 4" to 8" over the fingerboard. You can set your hand a comparable distance away and feel nothing more than warmth.
Now, granted - I am using gentle heat + time as a recipe for glue softening, and the 100w bulb technique does take a while. I use different methods these days
which are more efficient and do rely on direct contact for heat transmission. BUT - the fact remains that an unremarkable amount of heat can easily soften glue.

It's precisely the combination of low heat + time that concerns me with the OP's situation.
The comments above regarding playing outside in 100 degree weather overlook this point.
It's much less dangerous to be out in hot weather for an hour than in medium heat for 2 weeks straight.

Cheers,
Martin

 

[Keith Guitars]

Guitars establish an equilibrium with themselves over time with various parts expanding and contracting and tension being present. To remove string tension completely in the misguided belief that this somehow helps survive extreme temperature changes is naive. There's a reason that every guitar in the world is shipped tuned when shipped from the factory.

This last sentence is surprising to me. I have personally unpacked, inspected and set up probably two hundred Asian-made guitars that were shipped directly from the factory.
They were not tuned up to pitch. This is not accidental.
Most folks (including myself) ship instruments tuned at pitch, but - THIS IS KEY - using common carriage services that deliver in a week or less and are generally fairly OK with climate control.
Cross-ocean trips on container ships are an entirely different situation. I can also tell you that heat-related damage in these storage/transit situations is not uncommon.
You just don't get to see it that much with new guitars because they don't make it to market.

Removing tension from the system (strings AND truss rod) is BY FAR the best way to prepare an instrument for long-term storage.
There are small liabilities, especially with acoustic instruments, but they are significantly outweighed by the advantages.
The environmental variables become a significantly smaller threat, especially to the neck. For an electric, the only real danger
is that you might lose a bridge saddle or tuner bushing that is normally held in place by the string.
This belief (read: fact) is anything but naive.

I'm not trying too hard to change anyone's mind here. If my experiences repairing this type of damage will
encourage someone to be a bit cautious, all the better. If not, then I or one of my colleagues in the repair
community gets hired to repair a warped neck, so ultimately it's win-win either way for those of us that do this for a living.

Cheers,
Martin

 

[hbarcat]

With one huge exception, thousands and thousands of instruments get shipped inside shipping containers every year which are every bit as hot as your example. Many of these are coming from Indonesia with tropical weather. So, I am not sure how you have anecdotal evidence of anything.

Those are brand new instruments which can take a lot of abuse without any noticeable damage. Just like you can beat up a new car (over-rev the engine, drive fast over deep potholes, never change the oil, etc...) with no obvious consequences, that doesn't mean it isn't causing premature wear. Treat an older car the same way and it won't last long.

Let me repeat, I don't consider anecdotal information to be a valid foundation on which to base an argument and I'm not making the claim that large temperature changes are actually causing damage. I'm just suggesting that it's plausible and maybe possible.

For further consideration, as an engineering student, I learned about the thoroughly documented affects on various materials when subjected to cycles of heating and cooling. In particular, objects that are constructed with 2 or more materials that have different coefficients of thermal expansion quickly lose their integrity after repeated cycles. Bass and guitar necks are so constructed with wooden necks and metal truss rods.

I sinply don't know if leaving basses in a closed car for a week during the hottest days of summer is going to harm them. I do know that I'm not willing to run that experiment on my personal instruments.

 

[saabfender]

That rule sounds sensible, but it simply doesn't really reflect the fact that the great majority of mass produced instruments begin their lives having spent weeks, if not months, in shipping containers. If this was somehow fatal, the industry would have developed a better process by now.

Soon, the inside of your neighborhood Guitar Center will look like this:

It's even more brutal than you describe. Once an Asian guitar gets to the US after spending weeks in a 100-120F shipping container, it can be in a semi trailer for another week on the way to a store. Those are not refrigerated trailers. Even after that, it can be shipping through a parcel service from the store to the buyer again, for another few days in a hot trailer.

 

[electracoyote]

With one huge exception, thousands and thousands of instruments get shipped inside shipping containers every year which are every bit as hot as your example. Many of these are coming from Indonesia with tropical weather. So, I am not sure how you have anecdotal evidence of anything.

Interestingly, a portion of those basses come out of the box with flaws that are either beyond repair or would take heroic measures from a qualified tech to correct. As a bass teacher with 25 weekly students, they often presented with a new bass that was manufactured in those geographical areas requiring long transport in shipping containers and unfavorable conditions. I've lost count how many of those I had to give students and parents the bad news that this bass is flawed, best to return it, the repair would exceed the price of the instrument.

Pure speculation, but I wonder how many of those were QC issues, and how many were due to poor shipping conditions. I put my money on a little of both. This correlates with first-hand experience, in which I've seen some basses come out of the hot trunk just fine, and other similar basses come out of the hot trunk (or an ice-cold UPS truck) with a flaw.

 

[Omega Monkey]

I mean if you just literally don't care about the bass, I suppose just do it and hope for the best. But it seems like an absolutely stupid waste of money to me if it doesn't work out, just to be able to play for 10 days. Why not just buy a bass at your destination, and then either sell it at home, or even just see about renting one. At least with those options there's no chance of ruining an instrument.

And all the guys saying "oh it's fine", remind me to never buy an instrument from you without trying it out and picking up in person. And the thing about "hundreds of instruments shipped from asia" is that those are NEW instruments, so if you get a bum one, you return and get one that's fine. Most of the cheap import manufacturers would rather take their chances on the occasional return (knowing full well that the often inexperienced players buying them may not realize anything is wrong until the return period is long over). Also, a shipping container packed tight with instruments in cardboard boxes (ie compartmentalized air and packing materials), loaded at room temperature is going to very slowly adjust to ambient outdoor temperature, especially when stacked amongst dozens of other similar containers on a boat. So it's hardly the same as leaving your bass in a gig bag in your car, which can increase 30 degrees in half an hour. It's the speed and frequency of temperature changes that really take a toll on an instrument. Frankly, I don't even like leaving my instruments in my climate controlled storage unit because they tend to heat it too much and cool it too much, which means temperature swings with weather changes and usually too dry, especially in the winter.

 

[gln1955]

I mean if you just literally don't care about the bass, I suppose just do it and hope for the best. But it seems like an absolutely stupid waste of money to me if it doesn't work out, just to be able to play for 10 days. Why not just buy a bass at your destination, and then either sell it at home, or even just see about renting one. At least with those options there's no chance of ruining an instrument.

And all the guys saying "oh it's fine", remind me to never buy an instrument from you without trying it out and picking up in person. And the thing about "hundreds of instruments shipped from asia" is that those are NEW instruments, so if you get a bum one, you return and get one that's fine. Most of the cheap import manufacturers would rather take their chances on the occasional return (knowing full well that the often inexperienced players buying them may not realize anything is wrong until the return period is long over). Also, a shipping container packed tight with instruments in cardboard boxes (ie compartmentalized air and packing materials), loaded at room temperature is going to very slowly adjust to ambient outdoor temperature, especially when stacked amongst dozens of other similar containers on a boat. So it's hardly the same as leaving your bass in a gig bag in your car, which can increase 30 degrees in half an hour. It's the speed and frequency of temperature changes that really take a toll on an instrument. Frankly, I don't even like leaving my instruments in my climate controlled storage unit because they tend to heat it too much and cool it too much, which means temperature swings with weather changes and usually too dry, especially in the winter.

Better be sure you never buy a boutique bass that was hauled across Arizona, New Mexico and Texas in July.

 

[countrybass5]

Sitting out in the sun? I wouldn't.

I agree...it's a big chance you're taking.

 

[saabfender]

"the fact remains that an unremarkable amount of heat can easily soften glue"

How is something that will send you to the emergency room an "unremarkable amount of heat"? You make it sound like fretboards are attached like Post-Its. Again, not understanding the reason for mischaracterizating much energy 100W is. Try that trick on your forearm and see how unremarkable the sensation is.

 

[Jehos]

My basses sit in my truck in the Texas heat all day when I have rehearsal after work. It's no big deal. The fact is, they got shipped in cardboard boxes inside shipping containers across the ocean and in trucks around the country. The heat doesn't harm them at all.

Wood glues are good up to about 200F. A car in the sun in 100F+ heat doesn't get much above 140F-150F inside. Plenty hot enough to cook a kid or a pet, but not nearly hot enough to break down the weakest part of your bass. The biggest issue you'll have is your tuning will go off because the strings are hot (and therefore expand), and will change as the bass cools back down. If you go straight from a hot car to the stage, you'll need to check your tuning between songs. If you let the bass cool off for half an hour, no big deal.

 

[Roxbororob]

You need a houshold iron set at pretty much max to remove a fretboard. Thats over 300F and could be up to 400F (leave it at that Rob, leave it at that...)

 

[Yonni]

*Status update*

Currently enjoying a beer by the sea in the Canary Islands and hoping my fretboard is still attached.

 

[FunkBear]

I've been wanting to keep one of my workhorse basses in my car during the day for use during my lunch breaks and this thread has convinced me to try it.