Lending Gear and Related Ethics

[swafran]

Sharing a backline with another band if they're playing before/after you is ok, but you decide that ahead of time. You don't ask at the last minute, and you certainly don't offer up someone else's gear to anyone.

Asking to borrow an instrument just makes you look stupid and annoying. And you should get a "NO" answer anyway.

I'll lend this (even to Paul McCartney!):

Haha, LH 6 string headless fretless... like smoking menthols so no one wants to bum any?

 

[Ox Boris]

I'm in the US, staying with my brother-in-law and picking up my first and only bass before flying back to Oz. Tomorrow, one of his friends is going to a jam and has invited me to come along. I think it's at a friend's property, all mates, casual, no audience, plug into existing gear. I don't know any of them and will be meeting them all for the first time. I'm not very good, a bit apprehensive at making an arse of myself and desperate not to have anyone think I ruined their jam day coz they had to accommodate the n00b.

My bass is a brand new EBMM StingRay4 Neck-through. A NT StingRay is still something of a novelty and I'm sure someone is going to ask for a play. How to refuse, considering they're doing me the singular courtesy of allowing me to join in, without seeming like a complete and utter ungrateful git?

I am massively grateful and capable of saying and showing it, but I need a speech to both refuse the request and not kill the vibe. As Obama's guy is probably working on a speech already, does anybody have some winning words?

 

[blastbass]

I'm in the US, staying with my brother-in-law and picking up my first and only bass before flying back to Oz. Tomorrow, one of his friends is going to a jam and has invited me to come along. I think it's at a friend's property, all mates, casual, no audience, plug into existing gear. I don't know any of them and will be meeting them all for the first time. I'm not very good, a bit apprehensive at making an arse of myself and desperate not to have anyone think I ruined their jam day coz they had to accommodate the n00b.

My bass is a brand new EBMM StingRay4 Neck-through. A NT StingRay is still something of a novelty and I'm sure someone is going to ask for a play. How to refuse, considering they're doing me the singular courtesy of allowing me to join in, without seeming like a complete and utter ungrateful git?

I am massively grateful and capable of saying and showing it, but I need a speech to both refuse the request and not kill the vibe. As Obama's guy is probably working on a speech already, does anybody have some winning words?

"Good evening, I'm not comfortable about lending my gear, thank you."

 

[DonBorelli]

I like your generosity. I like to share things, too, but have too many experiences where the lent thing came back dirty or damaged, and the other party was just oblivious. No malice, no carelessness, just different ideas or mistakes that anyone could make.

Ok, that sucks and I can understand your perspective

 

[Humbled]

...A NT StingRay is still something of a novelty and I'm sure someone is going to ask for a play. How to refuse, considering they're doing me the singular courtesy of allowing me to join in, without seeming like a complete and utter ungrateful git?

I am massively grateful and capable of saying and showing it, but I need a speech to both refuse the request and not kill the vibe. As Obama's guy is probably working on a speech already, does anybody have some winning words?

I'd jump at the chance to have a better player show me what my new bass sounds like.

 

[Ox Boris]

Ugh! I can't think of anything more ghastly, from either side of that scenario. The imaginary better player sounds like a real wanker

 

[Humbled]

Ugh! I can't think of anything more ghastly, from either side of that scenario. The imaginary better player sounds like a real wanker

Your BIL's buddies are wankers ?

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Like this one ?

Obviously it's been in quite a few "smoker" environments, but nobody ever, ever, put any burn marks on it, or set their drink on it... umm... ...or spilled their drink on it, anyhoo... It's seen some days...

View attachment 825964

YES! but mine had the head anchors on the top when turned vertically, not the wide side and the logo was top-left when standing up. Whole reason Fender changed to the wider cabinet was because all the bass players were turning their horizontal cabinets vertically and the head stuck out over the edges when used that way. '66 was the first year they came out with the the vertical cabinet. I notice you put a different colored power light in. I had a blue one in and a purple one in for a while, but kept going back to the red one.

Also, I didn't have the JBL's in it that are evident in yours. My '66 had two Jensen 12" speakers in it and it blew them with regularity. Think I replaced 4 speakers over the years. Now, I was gigging the heck out of it at 5 nights a week, 11½-months a year, but blowing speakers was very frustrating. In 1967 they put 15" speakers in that cab and fixed that blown speaker problem.

I finally traded mine in when it kept making a low humming noise and I was getting drowned out by the two Vox Super Beatle amps that guitarist and keyboard player used. Have since found out that the low humming noise that would disappear if I tapped on the top of the amp was just a tube that had gone microphonic and replacing that tube would have fixed it. No wonder the guy at the music store gave me such a good deal on the trade in. I paid $449 for it new in 1966 and got $400 in trade for it in 1971.

Thanks for the pic. Reminds me of some very good times!

 

[fdeck]

I've let people play through my amps, but I don't play super powerful gear where the head can obliterate the speakers. It's pretty much bulletproof.

 

[TOOL460002]

Saying "no" will either make darn sure they have a back up plan next time, or they never will And are a hopeless cause.

 

[DWBass]

I don't understand the total disrespect for gear that doesn't belong to folks. How do they gig with no gear? Do they destroy their own gear? I just don't get this 'borrowing' thing! For me, from my experience, seems it's a given that your ish will not be returned in the same condition you loaned it in. Therefore, I will never ever loan any of my equipment out to anyone.

 

[Ox Boris]

Your BIL's buddies are wankers ?

Your feet are cabbages?

 

[BadExample]

^^^ Cracked me up!

I'm in the US, staying with my brother-in-law and picking up my first and only bass before flying back to Oz. Tomorrow, one of his friends is going to a jam and has invited me to come along. I think it's at a friend's property, all mates, casual, no audience, plug into existing gear. I don't know any of them and will be meeting them all for the first time. I'm not very good, a bit apprehensive at making an arse of myself and desperate not to have anyone think I ruined their jam day coz they had to accommodate the n00b.

My bass is a brand new EBMM StingRay4 Neck-through. A NT StingRay is still something of a novelty and I'm sure someone is going to ask for a play. How to refuse, considering they're doing me the singular courtesy of allowing me to join in, without seeming like a complete and utter ungrateful git?

I am massively grateful and capable of saying and showing it, but I need a speech to both refuse the request and not kill the vibe. As Obama's guy is probably working on a speech already, does anybody have some winning words?

As far as being apprehensive if you tell them up front, they won't expect magic and you will feel more relaxed.

For the bass, you could make that introductory and keep it light. Maybe as you are unpacking it. Tell them it is your first and only bass and it is your wanker. No one touches my wanker. Then if they ask later or try to grab it, "Don't touch my wanker!" or "You've got your own wanker, go play with it." That bass player might be a bit thick in the noggin. Might have to use US slang like wiener or the proper term for meat and veggies.

 

[Korladis]

Had to lend my amp and cab tonight for a gig. 4 hours before the gig I agreed to lend the amp to a friend's band (well vetted / respectful). Learned on the gig that friends of friends' band was expecting to also borrow the amp. Fine. "Here are the rules / Be careful" speach. Fine, he agrees. Drummer and bass player switch. If could say something I would have otherwise it's "watchful eyes" on this new dude. Now-bassist is respectful ...initially. EQ knob gets cranked and soon after the "unplug the cable / amp roaring / me turn off the amp" thing happens. Can't chew the dude out since the audience is massive, quiet, and 5 feet away. Fix it and get it good enough for their finish. Turn off and set up for our friend's band. Re-vett bassist friend and re-establish ground rules, they agree. Gear seems to be working fine. Bassist friend is respectful. End gig. My drummer tells me he also didn't agree to backline this gig for other band and says he feels like crap for lending his kit. We are both feeling the burn. Lug gear out and go home, thinking about the situation and wanting to check gear (but can't yet since it is 11:30pm).
Questions:

Should I have said "no" to lending my gear to the other band on the spot? Backstory: their from 1.5 hours away, gig was no pay for everyone, no cover fee, they own pretty good gear like us, otherwise respectable mid 20-sumthin's like us, and we turned out to be the only band with amps / drums. Friends' band is also 1.5 hour away and similar situation as us.

Should I have cut their gig short once the drummer-bassist did the "cable out / amp still on" thing?

What are your thoughts in general of "on the spot" lending of amplification?

I lost all my respect for the "other" band and probably most of it for our friends' band. They all said they were grateful for borrowing amps and me troubleshooting my gear, but I feel like the odd man out on this. I nerd out and care for my gear for a reason. I guess I also feel that I'm responsible for my own gear wherever the gig may be and others have never heard of that way of thinking.

Here's my thing.

I will lend my gear on the spot pretty much only if it's a situation where someone brought their own gear, but then it stopped working at the show and there's no time for any alternative.

I will absolutely not lend my gear to schmucks who just show up ampless and expect everyone to cater to them.

I will lend my gear if arranged in advance of the show with full disclosure of who will be using it and how. Of course, when I start explaining how complicated my amp is, most of the time people no longer want to use it, ha ha.

 

[Korladis]

Had this happen last summer.
We setup and soundcheck as the headliner and leave our gear on stage.
Other band takes the stage and the guitarist and bassist start plugging into our gear.
Me and the guitarist look at each other and both head for the stage.
Apparently they were under the impression they could use our gear as thats what they usually do.
Hell no was our response.
Owner of the club comes and backs us up and says off the stage or plug into the PA.
That being said, ive been on multiple band bills and have been asked to use my gear by a fellow bassist interested in trying out something i had. Ive said yes because it was in advance and i knew them.

"What they usually do"? Wow.

 

[Korladis]

A little story. Went to play a gig. Played first set. The band leader says there are a couple of bass players here who want to sit in with the band - can they use my bass. I say yes even though I play six string instruments. I make a point of talking to them both explaining what the two extra string do. One guy plays a four so I advised him to just ignore the top and bottom strings and he does OK. the second guy tells me he’s just been exposed to a five string so I tell him to ignore the top string. He does OK too.

Turns out that these two were auditioning for my position. The Five that the second guy was exposed to was the one I kept at the rehearsal spot.

I was told that the band was taking a break for a while so I went over to the unit to collect my practice gear. Everything was packed away, including my gear, so it was obvious the band had played at least one gig using my gear. All in all what a sleazy bunch.

The leader is an egoist and this was his band. I had been getting some really nice comments on my playing from members of the audience. I guess he didn’t like that.

Will I allow someone else to use my gear? Not a chance in hell!!

Wow. The band leader sounds like a total scumbag.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

I prefer not to lend out gear even if I know the person who will be using it.

Case and point, I lent my friend an envelope filter of mine to try out at one of his local gigs. I made it out to the gig and was watching them perform when a guy with a beer in his hand went up towards the stage. The people dancing around him were rowdy, and he got pushed forward and his beer went all over my friend's pedal board. Luckily, nothing fried, but it's just one example of how an external factor can damage a piece of your gear.

On the other hand, I've done a number of gigs (both out and in town) with bands where we shared the back line which consisted of both bands' rigs. Many times this has worked out alright with nothing go wrong or anyone doing anything questionable. All the same, I think it's just easier for me to use my stuff and for the other guy to use his.

 

[Humbled]

...Case and point, I lent my friend an envelope filter of mine to try out at one of his local gigs. I made it out to the gig and was watching them perform when a guy with a beer in his hand went up towards the stage. The people dancing around him were rowdy, and he got pushed forward and his beer went all over my friend's pedal board. Luckily, nothing fried, but it's just one example of how an external factor can damage a piece of your gear...

1. Seems to me the same thing would have happened regardless if you were on stage instead of your friend.

2. Beer on a pedal is hardly a tragedy.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

1. Seems to me the same thing would have happened regardless if you were on stage instead of your friend.

2. Beer on a pedal is hardly a tragedy.

To the first point - exactly. Even people you can trust can return a piece of gear ruined by no real fault of their own. That said, I'd rather a piece of my gear get ruined while I'm using it than someone else.

As to the second point - kinda. We were fortunate that nothing got damaged.

 

[drummer5359]

I have rented out and even lent backline for events.

They don't get to use my SVT CL, SVT 212AVs or SVT 810E, I have a SVT 3 Pro and SVT 410HE that I keep for that purpose. Similarly, MY DWs and Gretsch USA kits don't get rented or lent. I have an older, but nice Slingerland kit that I will let others use. The only guitar amps I have are Fenders, a Blues Deluxe and a Hotrod Deluxe, so that is what goes.