Let's talk patch cables and stereo outputs

[waveman]

Alright, so after going through and working out some noise issues with pedalboard, I figured I would start a discussion on experiences and approaches to a solution for the challenges of cabling/powering modern pedalboard with mixed TRS and TS connectors.

So I have Tonex One that is the heart of my pedalboard and several months ago I did a show where I started having issues with a high pitched whine in most places I plugged into. I tolerated it since it wasn't that loud and by them time my two guitar players fired their rigs up, it sort of sit/hid with hiss from their rigs. Fast forward we are going ampless, and they no longer have their hissy tube amps.

I have a three-four pedal setup, and had all pedals using the same power source. I tried several different wallwort power sources, and each presented the same issue. Then I got a rechargeable power supplies to power the board, hopefully that would provide enough isolation to stop it, but nope. After some troubleshooting I noticed there was less or no noise when there was no pedal in front of the Tonex One. So I decided to see what happens if I just plug the ToneX into it's own power supply. The noise went away while the other three pedals shared power. So, I looked at the battery power supply I have and noticed it had the capabily of essentially working as two power supplies, hooked it up, no noise with the ToneX running on it's own and the other three sharing the source.

BTW, here is the rechargeable power supply I am using... it is effing awesome! AYCRIT Rechargeable Power Supply

This got to me thinking that possibly the I am getting some noise from the "R" (ring) contact within the pedal with a mono 1/4" insert, which I believe is a TS (tip-sleeve). I haven't been able to test this theory yet, but I can't imagine what else would cause this issue, and it makes me wonder if there is an issue with all of these modern pedals having balanced or unbalanced outputs with TRS connects and using mono patch cables eventhough they might have circuitry that is suppsed to handle that in most cases. Also, would using TRS to TRS patch cables work when hooking from balanced/unbalanced TRS to a mono pedal? If not, would it be wise to make your own cable or have someone create one that would essentially break the path of the "R" ring signal?

 

[Brian Patterson]

You can perform continuity and ohm(?) tests on your cable to determine their condition - just a good idea in general, regardless of other issues.

 

[Roland GR 88]

When using pedals any mono jack whether it’s in or out uses TS mono cables. Only use TRS cables if you are running in stereo from a TRS stereo jack.
In the case of the Tonex and other stereo pedals the TRS jacks are for stereo use and are dual unbalanced.
You most certainly solved the noise issue by giving your pedals enough power.

 

[sunbeast]

Alright, so after going through and working out some noise issues with pedalboard, I figured I would start a discussion on experiences and approaches to a solution for the challenges of cabling/powering modern pedalboard with mixed TRS and TS connectors.

So I have Tonex One that is the heart of my pedalboard and several months ago I did a show where I started having issues with a high pitched whine in most places I plugged into. I tolerated it since it wasn't that loud and by them time my two guitar players fired their rigs up, it sort of sit/hid with hiss from their rigs. Fast forward we are going ampless, and they no longer have their hissy tube amps.

I have a three-four pedal setup, and had all pedals using the same power source. I tried several different wallwort power sources, and each presented the same issue. Then I got a rechargeable power supplies to power the board, hopefully that would provide enough isolation to stop it, but nope. After some troubleshooting I noticed there was less or no noise when there was no pedal in front of the Tonex One. So I decided to see what happens if I just plug the ToneX into it's own power supply. The noise went away while the other three pedals shared power. So, I looked at the battery power supply I have and noticed it had the capabily of essentially working as two power supplies, hooked it up, no noise with the ToneX running on it's own and the other three sharing the source.

BTW, here is the rechargeable power supply I am using... it is effing awesome! AYCRIT Rechargeable Power Supply

This got to me thinking that possibly the I am getting some noise from the "R" (ring) contact within the pedal with a mono 1/4" insert, which I believe is a TS (tip-sleeve). I haven't been able to test this theory yet, but I can't imagine what else would cause this issue, and it makes me wonder if there is an issue with all of these modern pedals having balanced or unbalanced outputs with TRS connects and using mono patch cables eventhough they might have circuitry that is suppsed to handle that in most cases. Also, would using TRS to TRS patch cables work when hooking from balanced/unbalanced TRS to a mono pedal? If not, would it be wise to make your own cable or have someone create one that would essentially break the path of the "R" ring signal?

I’m not sure where you came up with the TRS theory, but if I’m understanding your troubleshooting correctly it just sounds like the ToneX needs isolated power due to some funky interaction with other pedals through shared power (A TS cable put into a TRS jack will just shunt the ring terminal to ground) Lots of times, and particularly when mixing analog and digital pedals in the same chain, certain pedals can cause noise issues when daisy-chaining a power supply. This is the reason expensive isolated pedal power supplies like the Cioks DC7 exist (every output is electronically isolated from all the other outputs, preventing these noise issues) and are so popular on places like Talkbass!

 

[BassmanNate]

Digital pedals typically have a higher current draw. They can also tend to inject a bit of noise in the power line due to the frequencies microprocessors run at. They're designed to reject their own noise but that could end up feeding into other pedals sharing a power supply. When you increase current, which your digital pedals typically do, it tends to increase the amplitude of any noise on the line, making the problem worse.

Isolating your power will usually fix the problem, as you've found out.

 

[waveman]

I’m not sure where you came up with the TRS theory, but if I’m understanding your troubleshooting correctly it just sounds like the ToneX needs isolated power due to some funky interaction with other pedals through shared power (A TS cable put into a TRS jack will just shunt the ring terminal to ground) Lots of times, and particularly when mixing analog and digital pedals in the same chain, certain pedals can cause noise issues when daisy-chaining a power supply. This is the reason expensive isolated pedal power supplies like the Cioks DC7 exist (every output is electronically isolated from all the other outputs, preventing these noise issues) and are so popular on places like Talkbass!

The theory is that sometimes you might have cheap mono 1/4" connection male or female that might not be speced right or whatever and there is some extra contact most likely with the R with the S contact. And, I have seen something like that before where a mono cable was inputed into stereo TRS jack and caused horrible noise for the mono connection.