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Let's talk tone....

chadhargis

chadhargis

Jack of all grooves, master of none
Supporting Member
Jan 5, 2010
3,941
5,377
Nashville, TN
#1
Yeah, I know it's been beat to death, but being a new player but a LONG time fan of music and running sound, I know the tone I want, just don't know how to get there.

I have a 5 string BTB, 35" scale, neck through, maple and bubinga body and neck with rosewood fretboard. It's got bart pickups and preamp.

I can't afford the Alembic Jimmy Johnson plays, but the way his bass sounds is what I'm after. Deep, deep, deep bottom end. Smooth, no bite, no sizzle....just deep smooth tone.

In the following song, the bass kicks in about 25 seconds in, at 34 seconds, the low note Jimmy hits makes me weep it's so wonderful.



To those of you out there who are in the know, what makes a bass sound like this? Is it the bass? Is it the setup? Is it the amp?

I just put on a set of Chromes, and the flats moved me closer to what I'm looking for, but they still have a very bright tone to them. I've cut a lot of top end and mids to get that low tone, and I'm sure when the strings break in a bit they will be better.

Anything else you guys could think of to give me that sweet, sweet, fluid deep tone?
 
#2
I've gotten tone like that out of my p bass even with rounds. Flats help you may want to go with something like labellas for a less bright tone. Take away all your treble on your preamp,and your amp,boost your bass,and solo your neck pickup and up towards the neck.

Also helps to have an amp with large speakers such as 15s.
 
#3
I've cut the highs, and even though my amp is a 2x10 cab, it plays plenty low. I played several basses through it at GC, and was blown away by a fretless Spector. I hooked up a single 15 cabinet to it, and honestly it sounded tighter and more controlled with only the two 10's.

Here's my current amp:

IMG_0482.jpg
 
#8
What I do for most basses (when I try them out at a store, usually)
right off the bat is: both pickups on, boost bass (not all the way), and boost mid (less than the bass, but more than treble), and have a touch of treble. Turn down the gain on your amp too.

Mind you, this might sound different on your Ibanez because the all preamps are different sounding.

But, there are probably better solutions than the one I have.....
 
#10
Nitkin said:
it will sound dead,dull or thin...whatever...till you don't play with a band.
Click to expand...

This is very true. You may think the sound is flat and thin until you play with a band...and watch how much it fills in the sound.

Ive got a BTB also...and ill be honest, ive never been too happy with its tone. You have a nicer model than mine, though, so it might be different...is that the neck through?

Either way...its a great live bass, but i dont like its tone on tape.
 
#11
first beautiful song. nice bass rig. on a side note what is your recording set up software and input device? just curious.

IMO
If you have a tone selectable eq I would cut the piercing highs a bit and what you are looking for is actually in the mids. 200-600hz that is your punch zone his tone has punch and growl. then look around the 90hz for that pillow low warmth sound.

never underestimate the power of 10" speakers. that can produce plenty of bass. someone told me once they are the most common speaker so the technology is the most advanced. whatever they work and they are punchy which this guy has in his tone.

speaking of mids this guy also has growl in his tone... so I think I would actually lean the pick up blend slightly toward the bridge. get the volume high and play soft

else let me know what you are missing and maybe I can help. I 'm always chasing tone anyway.

butch
 
#12
Thanks gang.

Butch, the recording device is an M-Audio Analog to Digital converter. Plug in analog and it comes out USB into whatever software you choose (GarageBand, Logic, Pro Tools). It comes in as MIDI which means you can do lots of stuff with it.

I think you are right about the tonal range. Might not be the 40hz I'm after, but the 120 to 200.

That being said the acoustics of the room I'm in are awful. It's my workshop so tools are rattling like crazy and it has no carpet. Concrete floor and filled with metal tool boxes. Very very ugly acoustically.
 
#13
Ok...I'm a newbie, and not afraid to admit it. As many have stated on here, never underestimate the value of a good teacher.

I go to my lesson last night, and I asked about tone. Told him what I was after and asked his opinion. He said, "Play something for me and let me hear it". So I did. He said, "I see the problem...your hands are too big". HUH? Hands are too big??

Seems the issue is my big mitts. I was using the "wandering thumb" technique, which was causing me to have to curl my fingers up to an extreme degree to pluck the string just below the one my thumb was anchored on. Because of this, I was "pushing down and pulling up" on the strings more than I was raking across them. I was "digging" as my teacher put it. He told me the pickups work better with the string vibrating side to side than they do up and down as the string is passing through the magnetic field better that way.

I anchored my thumb to the top of the pickup and extended my hand. My index and middle fingers were well past the bottom of the G string. I was instructed to anchor my thumb to the body of the bass above the pickup to the point where my extended fingers would just reach the last string and my hand and wrist would be flat. Once I did that, I was forced to drag my fingers across the strings which allowed me to play harder since the strings weren't slapping the frets anymore.

Low and behold, the bass came to life and sounded awesome. I really love that deep flatwound tone now. I went home, set my pre-amp EQ flat and took some highs out on the pre-amp in my bass and it's nearly spot on. A little tweaking and I think I'll be where I want to be.

Funny how simple hand position makes that much difference. If I'd be teaching myself, I'd likely have never discovered what my problem was.

Those of you who have been playing for years....stop laughing at me! LOL! :)
 
#15
Well, I pretty much knew it wasn't the bass. It is way more capable than I am (or probably will ever be starting out at 38 years old).

My teacher did tell me that eventually I'd "violate" the anchored thumb rule and my hand would become more mobile as I move my playing position around. But he said for now, to develop muscle memory and technique, to anchor my thumb.

Makes sense to me.
 
#16
chadhargis said:
Deep, deep, deep bottom end. Smooth, no bite, no sizzle....just deep smooth tone.

In the following song, the bass kicks in about 25 seconds in, at 34 seconds, the low note Jimmy hits makes me weep it's so wonderful.

Click to expand...


Sorry to OP, I'm not experienced enough to answer your question as to how to get that tone without having Jimmy's Alembic.

I do have to agree, though, that Jimmy Johnson's tone on the James Taylor Live at the Beacon Theater DVD, from which the above clip was taken, is one of the sweetest on this earth! I've watched that DVD at least twice a week for the last 6 months, and the more I listen to it, the more I dig those deep, smooth and tastefully melodic basslines.
 
#17
I agree...the recording on the DVD is amazing. I have the CD too and it's ripped into my iPod. The smooth flow of deep bass that Jimmy lays out there is just pure goodness.

I'm positive even with Jimmy's Alembic, my playing wouldn't sound like that. :)
 
#19
I've been playing around with my technique a bit. I set my bass up properly (it was off quite a bit from the "book"). I have tried the anchored thumb technique, but I just don't like it. Too hard to mute the strings.

I've been using the "floating thumb" again, but playing softer and turning the amp up louder. This seems to have given me a deeper, stronger fundamental.

It's amazing how different you can make things sound just by doing things differently with your right hand.
 
#20
Hey Chad,
Congrats on a huge step forward in your musical growth. Your taste in bass players/musicians is great. Jimmy is fine player with a great tone.

Learning that good tone has everything to do with your touch is perhaps the single most important thing you can learn in order to get a great tone. This forum if filled with guys looking to swap pickups, amps and strings looking for a great tone. You figured it out pretty quickly. While you can tweak your tone by changing all those things, the tone itself comes from you.

Armed with that knowledge, record yourself religiously, that will help you fine tune your technique and really improve your tone.
 

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