Listening for Feed Forward vs Feed-Back compression

[ImTheOnlyOne]

When listening closely to a compression effect, can you tell when you're hearing FF vs FB compression?
I hear a clear difference, so I'm asking so I can learn when to choose which type on my Becos.

From the Becos CompIQ Pro mini manual:

SIDE CHAIN FEED – The FEED switch determines the compressor’s side
chain topology, allowing for either Feed Forward (FF) or Feed-Back
(FB) types of compression. Some FB and milder FF compression
settings may produce similar audible results, where the compression
effect sounds alike in both modes. However, FB compression focuses
more on 'feel' than 'precision,' offering a smoother, less obvious, more
airy, and less punchy compression. In FB mode, the Knee selection is
less distinct compared to FF compression, where the Hard Knee effect
is more pronounced. FB compression might not be suitable for limiting
purposes. Employing a slower timing (plus Soft Knee) further enhances
the smoothness of FB compression. It's important to note that when
maximum Gain is applied in FB mode, small signals such as buzz, hum,
or electromagnetic fields captured by instrument pickups and/or
cables might trigger compression due to the RMS detector receiving a
make-up gain-amplified signal. This triggering can occur easier when
the Side Chain Filter boosts the low frequencies of the control signal,
especially when set for maximum boost (fully CCW). To reduce the
sensitivity of the FB side chain, consider lowering the Gain and/or
Ratio, raising the Threshold to a higher level, using slower timing
and/or Soft Knee, adjusting lows with the SCF, or employing a
combination of these techniques.

 

[red_rhino]

I haven’t tried FF vs FB on my Becos Yuna yet. I generally don’t compress real hard or crank up the gain because that’s usually not the sound I’m after. I’ll try it out and see what difference I can hear and report back.

 

[silky smoove]

I would take those comparisons with a grain of salt as FF vs FB is only one portion of the sound of a compressor. For instance, both the 1176 and the LA2A are feedback designs with the 1176 being one of the punchiest compressors ever built, and the LA2A being famously slow, thick, fat, etc. and generally the opposite of punchy. Further, the famous SSL bus compressor on many of their consoles is a feedback design that sounds nothing like an 1176 or an LA2A.

 

[ImTheOnlyOne]

This table lists some additional differences in how each style acts on a signal.

The table implies switching to FF when using hard knee limiting.

 

[red_rhino]

The table implies switching to FF when using hard knee limiting.

IIRC, the Becos Yuna is a soft-knee compressor. Not sure if the other Becos comps offer a hard/soft knee switch feature.

I hear a clear difference

Yeah, I absolutely hear a difference as well, particularly on how it affects the SCF. In fact, it seems to affect the entire character of the pedal. Smoother, more polite, in a very nice musical way. This will be my default setting going forward.

I bought the Yuna about a week ago. I had originally intended to update my Lusithand Alma MKI to an MKIII, but got curious about the Yuna and decided to try it instead. (I will probably do a more in-depth review over in the Testing Compressors mega-thread.)

I’ve spent much of the week playing with the Yuna, comparing it to my Alma (although it would be more apples-to-apples if my Alma was an MKIII). The Yuna gets very close to the Alma in feed-forward mode, but it was still a bit more aggressive than I prefer. (Not bad, just different, and I’m trying to stay open minded what I want a comp to do.). One thing I hadn’t realized until I read your table above (and checked with Lusithand) is that the Alma is a feedback compressor. I changed the jumper from FF to FB, and voila, there it was; the smoothness I get from the Alma along with the higher compression ratios, attack/release settings, and SCF of the Yuna. Much more to my liking.

My Yuna has the DITOS transformer option. I’ve been on the fence about whether or not I like it. This also seems to benefit from using a feedback setting, at least in how I like the overall sound.

The experience has been a bit eye opening. I’ve had (and tried) some very nice comps, and the one that has really stuck for me has been the Alma. It would seem that I have a preference for feedback style compression. I know there are many other factors to consider, but for me, that seems to be an important one.

 

[ImTheOnlyOne]

IIRC, the Becos Yuna is a soft-knee compressor. Not sure if the other Becos comps offer a hard/soft knee switch feature.


Yeah, I absolutely hear a difference as well, particularly on how it affects the SCF. In fact, it seems to affect the entire character of the pedal. Smoother, more polite, in a very nice musical way. This will be my default setting going forward.

I bought the Yuna about a week ago. I had originally intended to update my Lusithand Alma MKI to an MKIII, but got curious about the Yuna and decided to try it instead. (I will probably do a more in-depth review over in the Testing Compressors mega-thread.)

I’ve spent much of the week playing with the Yuna, comparing it to my Alma (although it would be more apples-to-apples if my Alma was an MKIII). The Yuna gets very close to the Alma in feed-forward mode, but it was still a bit more aggressive than I prefer. (Not bad, just different, and I’m trying to stay open minded what I want a comp to do.). One thing I hadn’t realized until I read your table above (and checked with Lusithand) is that the Alma is a feedback compressor. I changed the jumper from FF to FB, and voila, there it was; the smoothness I get from the Alma along with the higher compression ratios, attack/release settings, and SCF of the Yuna. Much more to my liking.

My Yuna has the DITOS transformer option. I’ve been on the fence about whether or not I like it. This also seems to benefit from using a feedback setting, at least in how I like the overall sound.

The experience has been a bit eye opening. I’ve had (and tried) some very nice comps, and the one that has really stuck for me has been the Alma. It would seem that I have a preference for feedback style compression. I know there are many other factors to consider, but for me, that seems to be an important one.

[Squints at the compressor] Currently set on Feed-back as well with a bass bump to the SCF. Mix set 50/50. Playing a smoother, saturated tone. I switch to FF and fast attack when after some pop.

My Becos CompIQ Pro mini is followed next by a Lightning Boy transformer. I like the top-side space savings since I can place the LBA under the board. It would also fit right under the comp

Some compressor history:

https://www.vintagedigital.com.au/blog/history-of-compressor-limiters/

 

[red_rhino]

[Squints at the compressor] Currently set on Feed-back as well with a bass bump to the SCF. Mix set 50/50. Playing a smoother, saturated tone. I switch to FF and fast attack when after some pop.

Ah, I see that the Mini Pro has a toggle for feed-forward / feedback. It’s a jumper setting on the Yuna, which is fine mostly because my preference is for feedback. However, it would be nice to have feed-forward quickly available, as I do like what that does and would probably find reasons to switch between them when playing live. I can see a future version that adds the toggle.

The Yuna also has some internal dip switches for voicing. After playing around with them, I eventually came back to the default voicing as my favorite. Probably better not to have those available as switches; I’d be distracted by all the tweaking options. Out of sight, out of mind, as it were.

 

[Zbysek]

IIRC, the Becos Yuna is a soft-knee compressor. Not sure if the other Becos comps offer a hard/soft knee switch feature.

They do (Mini, Stella and Twain).

 

[becosfx]

Ah, I see that the Mini Pro has a toggle for feed-forward / feedback. It’s a jumper setting on the Yuna, which is fine mostly because my preference is for feedback. However, it would be nice to have feed-forward quickly available, as I do like what that does and would probably find reasons to switch between them when playing live. I can see a future version that adds the toggle.

The Yuna also has some internal dip switches for voicing. After playing around with them, I eventually came back to the default voicing as my favorite. Probably better not to have those available as switches; I’d be distracted by all the tweaking options. Out of sight, out of mind, as it were.

Yuna is aimed for simpler operation while still providing options. Its Comp range it’s wider than “diamond-based” designs (which are low ratio compressors) and it can squish a lot if dialed in. It also acts in a sort of “logarithmic” way, because the control varies Threshold and Ratio at the same time. Basically, the circuit is “armed” to compress at any time, even in its lowest Comp setting, if the signal is strong enough to pass the threshold. However, there are plenty of ways to make it smoother even in the FF mode, firstly by dialing less Comp, using Dry blend, the SCF, and even changing the RMS level sensor reference higher, to -10dBu, by changing its internal jumper; the opposite is also valid, and perhaps desirable if low signals from soft pickups are used. And, obviously, with changing its mode of operation to FB, you basically have a new and different compressor. Not only the control signal is taken from after the VCA, but the achievable ratio is lower than in FF mode. Basically, all parameters are affected by this change. Then again, the controls range are wide enough to provide flexibility in various ways, to accommodate any signals, including strong line level ones. But because the aim of the interface is to “keep it simpler”, some options have been moved inside. It would have been a pity to not offer Feed-Back mode, since this extends the compression feel so much! We now offer this option to all our compressors, for extended versatility.

 

[Chris Chong]

The becos comp mini pro is very versatile of its size, experimenting with the switches and found myself favouring feedback and softknee.

 

[ImTheOnlyOne]

Oooh, a Yuna with DITOS looks sweet.

Becos Yuna Pro Compressor Pedal Review

Powerful. Refined. Convenient. Those three words readily come to mind when I think about my experience with the new Yuna compressor from Becos.

www.compressorpedalreviews.com

 

[scubaduba]

Definitely look at Yuna with DITOS. Absolutely killer.

 

[ImTheOnlyOne]

And, obviously, with changing its mode of operation to FB, you basically have a new and different compressor. Not only the control signal is taken from after the VCA, but the achievable ratio is lower than in FF mode. Basically, all parameters are affected by this change.

I like that aspect of my Becos compressor. The FF/FB switch makes it like having two different devices. Thanks for the nice details on the Yuna. Your pedal designs are top-notch.

 

[GrowlerBox]

Interesting discussion; thanks all. As a side note, the API Tranzformer CMP has a feedback/feedforward switch, labelled "new/old", and clearly changes the character of the compression as you have described. The API doesn’t have all the controls provided by Becos, but it’s a very nice unit.