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Little Mark III and 102p not enough, upgrade ideas?

S

skimatic

Aug 11, 2013
13
2
Sunnyvale, CA
#1
Hi everyone!

I'm trying to get some new amp gear, and would appreciate advice on some of the points below.

I recently purchased the Little Mark III (300w @ 8ohms, 500w @ 4ohms) along with a 8ohm 2x10 Markbass 102p (400w RMS). I LOVE how small and light the 102p is (33lbs). And I think the sound from this setup is great. It responds really well to my 5 string.

When using this setup to play gigs I've had the gain set just below where I start clipping, and the master volume at about 65%-80%. It seems like that's a bit high, so I was thinking I need to upgrade the setup. (Also, on one occasion the amp cut out ....I'm assuming the protection circuit).

1) One option is to get an additional 1x15 or 2x10 so that I get the full 500w. The downside is that my setup is then maxed out....if I ever need more I'll have to upgrade again. Also, I'd rather not have to carry around a 2x10 AND a 1x15 all the time.....if I could get a setup that worked with just a 2x10 most of the time, that would be awesome.

2) Second option is that I could upgrade the amp to the Little Mark 800 (for example). It's not that much more money, so I'm thinking I'd like to do this so I don't have to upgrade again anytime soon. The main problem I see though is that it puts out 500w @ 8ohms, so it would probably be too powerful for the 400w 2x10 that I have.

If I stuck with markbass speakers, I could get a 4x10 or something that could handle 500+ watts....but then I have a heavier setup than I'd like. I could also add a 1x15 or 2x10, but again - I'd like the option of playing with just a 2x10.

So I'm wondering - would it be safe to run the Little Mark 800 at 500w into the 2x10 that is 400w? I believe having it turned up could blow the speaker, but if the master volume is pulled back would it be ok? Or is that just a dangerous game to play?

It appears that most 2x10s are rated for a max of 400w....which is frustrating if you have a 500w amp!

3) A third option could be to upgrade to the Little Mark 800, and get an Avatar 2x10. These appear to be the only 2x10 I can find that is rated for 500w. The Avatar 2x10 is a little bit heavier, but still relatively light. I could always add a 1x15 into the mix down the road to get the full 800w.

I tried an Avatar 2x12 from a friend of mine, and one thing that has me hesitant is that when tapping the strings (to cutoff a note for example) it would sort of pop the speakers, whereas with the markmass 2x10 it was a clear click sound. Unfortunately Avatar has a no refund policy, and I can't try 'em before I buy 'em. So I'm a little uncertain about going this route. Has anyone has this issue with Avatar, or have any thoughts?

I would love to hear what people have to say about these 3 options ...

Thanks very much for any help! :)
 
#2
Get a second Markbass 102p 210. Two times of what you like already and almost twice as loud. Getting more power into a single 210 will only gain possibly blown speakers and why throw a different cab into the mix and risk throwing the sound off?

If you are set on a one cab option then get a bigger cab like a 410, 212, 610, 412, or 810. You need speakers to make sound, amp power is NOT the answer.
 
#3
This is just about my exact situation right now, and I went with a second 102p, for larger/outdoor gigs.

Its almost like having a "modular" rig, one cab for small, intimate gigs, and the equivalent of a 4x10 for the larger gigs when its needed.
 
#4
Yes-get a 2nd 210 cab. Pushing more than 300 watts into that cab will not make it any louder. It will take more power and compress, rather than get louder. A more powerful amp will not get you where you want to go if it's paired with the same cab.
 
#5
Wow, thanks for the quick repsonses!

A couple thoughts....

I'd like to avoid a bigger cab if I can....I love how easily portable the 102p is. I thought about 2x12s....but then we're back to heavy and bigger.

I'm not opposed to having 2 speakers....either 2 2x10s or a 2x10 and 1x15, but it would be nice to be able to play with just one 2x10 if it's a quieter gig. But it would also be nice to have extra head room ....which is why I was thinking maybe I should spend the extra little bit and get the 800 to help ensure I don't run out.

But I'm just not sure if I can run the 800 through a single 2x10 and be safe. Hence the thought about Avatar.....my main hesitation being the pop I was hearing.
 
#8
B-string said:
No you can't run the 800 through a single 210 and be "safe" and probably not much louder before you damage the 210.
Click to expand...

Ok, but what if you think about it like this:

- I don't need it to be louder right now, with the LMIII at 80% it's good. But I do worry about having the amp up that high.
- That's why I was thinking, if I got the LM800 I could turn the volume down on the amp and strain it less, and the end result would be the same volume through the speaker.

And then, later on down the road if I find I need to be louder, I can add either a 2x10 or 1x15 into the mix to get that extra volume.

B-string said:
The way around the "pop" is a high pass filter like https://sites.google.com/site/hpftechllc/home/hpf-pre.
Click to expand...

Interesting, ok. That just filter out spikes I guess? Like, compression? Maybe I should read up on these in the forums...

I thought it was interesting that the markbass 2x10 didn't have an issue with it, but the avatar did....

Thanks again for your input :D
 
#9
The Avatar has a different response curve.

If you already are at or past the power compression point with the cab and the LMIII a larger amp just adds additional risk. There is a bassist here with a LMIII and the 410, he NEVER sees half on the master. The amp is NOT you weak link here :).
The HPF eliminates the sub sonic speaker movements (like accidentally hitting pickup poles and "slow pops" that don't add to your sound.
 
#13
Your 300/500W is heaps!... you just need to move more air!..matching cab is the perfect solution! You can either selct what the gig needs, or keep the second cab in the car if not required!! (and it will look better than my CL104 on top of an Ashdown 115!..all nicely driven by a little mark 11!)
 
#14
Actually, to gie you some honest opinion, the 102p isn't that great at all. Did you try it agains other cabs at purchase?

I urge you to go out and try the front ported cabs, the 102hf seems to be a lot louder than the 102p. You can pretty much just scrap your second option, as I've tried to use the SD1200 with the 102p, besides that fact that it's "unsafe", I felt there's no improvement in volume at all (besides having the ability to blow the speakers at will).

Trying the same head on the 102hf made a huge difference. Seems the sound is more open at louder volumes and definitely more punchy, you could "feel" the bass more. One more point on the amp, it's not only the wattage that you should consider, I tried the Little Mark III with their 8x10 and it was freakishly loud, definitely too loud for anything I'm doing.

Long story, but point is, keep the amp, add a cab or upgrade your current cab. Strongly suggest you try the 102hf (I'm thinking of getting one myself for rehearsal).
 
#15
B-string said:
No you can't run the 800 through a single 210 and be "safe" and probably not much louder before you damage the 210.
Sorry to tell you, you are a bassist and we need speaker area as well as power to compete. The way around the "pop" is a high pass filter like https://sites.google.com/site/hpftechllc/home/hpf-pre.
Click to expand...

my experience is that you certainly can run a LM800 through a 102p. i did this for years and it worked fine. granted, i was not going for a cataclysmically loud bass sound, or one with a huge bottom end. i used this rig primarily with a 5 piece rock band in which two of the members played horns. we were loud, but not kill-the-audience loud.

my settings were generally as follows: i never had to turn the gain or volume past noon (typically they sat around 9 or 10 o'clock), i set all the EQ knobs to about 1 o'clock, and i used a precision bass. filters were always all the way off. this gave me a rich, cutting rock bass sound that anchored the band while affording me a distinct identity in the mix. we usually played in small to mid-size rooms, and in terms of straight volume i found it to be pretty adequate, especially since we usually had PA support.

obviously if you're looking for post-hardcore level volume or enormous boomy bass then a single 2x10 is the wrong tool, and you probably will blow it trying to keep up. but there are still a lot of applications for which it will work just fine.
 
#17
I am running the full 500w with my Markbass F1 head and these traveler cabs:

th_2013-07-21110216_zpsc1dad3af.jpg


A 1x15 or a 2nd 2x10 will do much difference. Only if I need more juice, I bring the 1x15 because it's a bit of a hassle fitting it inside my Ford Mustang. :scowl:
 
#18
If you want to get louder, get a second 210''-cab.

And it is possible to run a single Markbass 102 - cab with a 800-Watt - amp. Just trust your ears and be carefull with the master volume.

I often use a 700-Watt @ 4 Ohm SWR Workingman with two Beyma 12'' - woofers together with my GenzBenz GBE 1200. At reasonable volumes it sounds incredible! And the GBE 1200 is able to deliver 1000 Watts @ 4 Ohms. I have had no problems at all.

Ciao

Uwe
 
#19
IronLung1986 said:
my experience is that you certainly can run a LM800 through a 102p. i did this for years and it worked fine. granted, i was not going for a cataclysmically loud bass sound, or one with a huge bottom end. i used this rig primarily with a 5 piece rock band in which two of the members played horns. we were loud, but not kill-the-audience loud.

my settings were generally as follows: i never had to turn the gain or volume past noon (typically they sat around 9 or 10 o'clock), i set all the EQ knobs to about 1 o'clock, and i used a precision bass. filters were always all the way off. this gave me a rich, cutting rock bass sound that anchored the band while affording me a distinct identity in the mix. we usually played in small to mid-size rooms, and in terms of straight volume i found it to be pretty adequate, especially since we usually had PA support.

obviously if you're looking for post-hardcore level volume or enormous boomy bass then a single 2x10 is the wrong tool, and you probably will blow it trying to keep up. but there are still a lot of applications for which it will work just fine.
Click to expand...

So you think it is a safe combination (keep in mind just how hard the OP is running a LMIII into it)? :rollno:
 

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