Live performance - have analog effects pedals had their day?

[Al Krow]

After several years of gigging with just bass, lead, amp, cab and band, I started down the slippery slope of pedals 15 months or so back and wondered whether to go down the multi-fx vs dedicated pedals route.

I came to the conclusion that multis, other than the really high end stuff, were not bad and a great intro into particular effects but couldn't really compete with dedicated pedals, particularly in the 'harder' emulation stuff e.g. synth, filter, dirt, polyphonic octave up but were pretty decent at some of the other 'easier' stuff e.g. delay, flange, chorus, tremolo, with compression and octave-down somewhere in between. I ended up getting a couple of the more budget Zoom multi-fxs (MS-60B and B3n) and a bunch of dedicated pedals.

Then the Helix and Helix HX came along. They are hitting the 'definitely good enough' level for a lot, but not quite all yet, effects - and let's face it in a live band mix the audience is not going to notice the last 10% difference between what the Helix is doing and a dedicated analog pedal on those effects where the Helix gets close - I know that is still not all of them. Importantly (for me anyway) the HX is also not much more than the cost of 2 or 3 decent analog pedals.

I'm now working with a couple of guitarists (one who regularly deps for us) in a function covers band. Our main guitarist has a traditional analog pedal board & Roland Blues cube amp; the dep has a Line 6 Helix ('full fat') and a relatively cheap Alto FRFR. The overall costs of their gear are about the same. I love the ability of the dep to programme his effects and have everything 'preset' for each song and effortlessly reorder if we decide on a different set list content or order. When it comes to linking songs our 'main' guitarist will be switching pedals on and off, faffing about tweaking knobs and in terms of song 'flow' spending around a minute between songs. Might not sound like much but if you have a dance floor audience it's not what they want.

One of our fellow bassists posted his board recently with a Helix HX and I'm rapidly coming to think that this is very much looking like the 'future' for live music; if so is the corollary for live performance that analog pedals have had their day?

 

[mobdirt]

No

 

[el murdoque]

I'm not really sure.

The Kemper has reached a solid following amongst guitar players, but the majority still believes in tube amps.

It is a bit like Nespresso vs. coffee from a barista. In a blind test, it is hard to tell the difference even for experienced people, but the fun and the chi chi is with the real stuff, even though there is a small insexpensive plastic box that can do it all and a hundred things more on the press of a button.


I have considered the Kemper, the Helix, a multi and all those options.
When I go ampless, I use a good ol' Sansamp.

I always feel it is a walk down a narrow path. You go all digital, all ampless, and suddenly you get replaced by a digital version of you. I've seen those 'bands' with one or two people and a bunch of high end digital gizmos that did a whole bands' work. I don't want to go down that alley. Not even one step.

 

[Wulfensteiner]

Simply put, no.

Where multi's are super cool to mess around with and are a GREAT way to sample effects, they aim to make everything 'easier', the configuration of a lot of them makes it anything BUT.

They also tend to sound kinda...you know..it's a dirty word around here..digital.

I like the flexibility and customisation available with a collection of analogues.

 

[Fun Size Nick]

After several years of gigging with just bass, lead, amp, cab and band, I started to get into the slippery slope of pedals, 15 months or so back and wondered whether to go down the multi-fx vs dedicated pedals route.

I came to the conclusion that multis, other than the really high end stuff, were not bad and a great intro into particular effects but couldn't really compete with dedicated pedals, particularly in the 'harder' emulation stuff e.g. synth, filter, dirt, polyphonic octave up but were pretty decent at some of the other 'easier' stuff e.g. delay, flange, chorus, tremolo, with compression and octave-down somewhere in between. I ended up getting a couple of the more budget Zoom multi-fxs (MS-60B and B3n) and a bunch of dedicated pedals.

Then the Helix and Helix HX came along. They are hitting the 'definitely good enough' level for a lot, but not quite all yet, effects - and let's face it in a live band mix the audience is not going to notice the last 10% difference between what the Helix is doing and a dedicated analog pedal on those effects where the Helix gets close - I know that is still not all of them. Importantly (for me anyway) the HX is also not much more than the cost of 2 or 3 decent analog pedals.

I'm now working with a couple of guitarists (one who regularly deps for us) in a function covers band. Our main guitarist has a traditional analog pedal board & Roland Blues cube amp; the dep has a Line 6 Helix ('full fat') and a relatively cheap Alto FRFR. The overall costs of their gear are about the same. I love the ability of the dep to programme his effects and have everything 'preset' for each song and effortlessly reorder if we decide on a different set list content or order. When it comes to linking songs our 'main' guitarist will be switching pedals on and off, faffing about tweaking knobs and in terms of song 'flow' spending around a minute between songs. Might not sound like much but if you have a dance floor audience it's not what they want.

One of our fellow bassists posted his board recently with a Helix HX and I'm rapidly coming to think that this is very much looking like the 'future' for live music; if so is the corollary for live performance that analog pedals have had their day?

View attachment 3052240

A minute of dead air sounds like ‘never getting hired again’ for a function band!

 

[Fiset]

Not for me. I will always be a "to each their own" kinda guy so if multis do it for you I wouldn't try to convince you otherwise. I admit to being intrigued by the Helix but I've followed the Helix threads here and the technical issues that seem to pop up are enough to keep me from dumping my individual stomps in favor of an all in one option. I'm also a knob tweaker and like to adjust things on the fly so I feel like I have more instantaneous control over my individual stomps.

But I'll never say never. Maybe there will come a time when I tire of all cool little boxes on my board...but that time isn't here yet.

 

[two fingers]

I don't think they'll "completely take over" in the next few years. But I do think they will take over a significant portion of the market in short order.

That Helix line is a "whole nuther level" from anything else Line 6 has done. One of my ghitar players uses one. It's pretty dang impressive. He own ridiculously expensive boutique amps. I haven't seen them in months. And I certainly don't think he's "lacking" in the tone department.

Of course, he's a computer programmer. So getting deep in the weeds of setting up his presets is a walk in the park for him.

 

[Krisfield]

It's good to have choice. I think that's what people want, the freedom to choice. I doubt we'll end up with a single box that does everything at the highest level possible. I like my analogue pedals, and I've got a big board which gets real messy.

 

[Mosfed]

No. The user interface and sub-par emulations will always make them second best in my book.

 

[Flamingo21]

When it comes to linking songs our 'main' guitarist will be switching pedals on and off, faffing about tweaking knobs and in terms of song 'flow' spending around a minute between songs. Might not sound like much but if you have a dance floor audience it's not what they want.

Depending on your gigging situation, this can be an important consideration. A minute between songs, dance floor in full swing, is simply too long.

 

[JimmyM]

Proving this obviously false premise would have been better had you not posted a pic of a board with analog effects on it. That said, since I endorse Ampeg and Yamaha owns them and Line 6 now, go Helix!

 

[Flamingo21]

Proving this obviously false premise would have been better had you not posted a pic of a board with analog effects on it. That said, since I endorse Ampeg and Yamaha owns them and Line 6 now, go Helix!

You got it wrong Jimmy. That is a farewell pic. E.g., a book on the advent of cars will have some pics of horses&carts.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Your guitarist doesn't understand his priorities. Like we discuss here, find a tone, and don't move the knobs during a set how long does it take to stomp on an on/off button?

 

[JimmyM]

You got it wrong Jimmy. That is a farewell pic. E.g., a book on the advent of cars will have some pics of horses&carts.

Hahaha! Well first they're going to have to overcome my law of the multi, which states that three to four of the effects will be good, three to four will not be so good but they will work in a pinch, the rest will suck, and none will be as good as individual pedals chosen to reflect your tastes. That said, digital has gotten Leaps and Bounds better over the past few years, so I do look forward to the day where my law is considered archaic. Still waiting, though.

 

[instrumentlevel]

No. Without analog effects, what will Helix users do when the inevitable GAS set in?

Like the last generation of digital multi-effects and the recent boutique analog explosion, this new generation of digital multieffect gives us another pile of things to buy when we get bored with whatever we have now.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

No. Most of my pedals are analog boutiqe-ey devices giving me sounds not generally available from digital multi-fx, and I like to tweak stuff on the fly which is just not possible with layers of menus on a tiny screen.

 

[Al Krow]

A minute of dead air sounds like ‘never getting hired again’ for a function band!

I wouldn't go quite that far - our lead singers fortunately are very good at the "chat", but it certainly doesn't help!

 

[Al Krow]

No. Most of my pedals are analog boutiqe-ey devices giving me sounds not generally available from digital multi-fx, and I like to tweak stuff on the fly which is just not possible with layers of menus on a tiny screen.

Making weird and wonderful loud bass sounds as you adjust your pedals on the fly as you're trying to find your next 'sound'; is that a realistic option in the middle of a function band set?

I guess it's something you could more feasibly do mid originals set numbers, 'cos you then have an audience who are there to listen to your band's material and not there 'cos they're just hoping for a great party?

 

[Frank77]

(Question: What does "dep" / "deps" means ?)

Not at all.

Digital multi-effects units have certainly improved a lot since I got rid of my Boss ME-8B, but a lot of their effects still sound gimmicky (IMO - the presets in particular are more often than not cartoonish and unusable) and I'm not interested in a large footprint unit that needs a dedicated wall wart if just 2-3 effects are good enough to me. I have gone back to dedicated, individual analog boxes. 6 boxes cover pretty much all my needs, anyway.

Also, your guitarist is doing it totally wrong, IMO: Stompboxes should be tweaked during soundcheck then left alone. A full minute of dead air is unacceptable, given that most of the tweaks will go totally unnoticed to the majority of the audience, anyway. Your guitarist needs to simplify things by finding stompbox settings that work for the entire set. Then all he'll have to do is switch them on or off as needed. It seems like common sense, which apparently is not that common!

BTW, multi-effects guys can also create dead air by getting lost in their menus under stress (I've seen it happen), so multis aren't a fail-safe, either.

 

[40Hz]

There will always be a market for analog pedals. Electric guitar didn’t eliminate acoustic guitar. MP3s didn’t destroy interest in vinyl records. Reproductions of medieval, Renaissance, and baroque instruments continue to have their players.

What I think you’ve seen up until recently with multi-effects was a convenience and “good enough” design principle in play.

But with some new products like the BOSS Katana series of guitar amps, I think that’s now changing and the newest multi-effects designs are making serious moves to attain parity with best of the analog world. And at an extremely aggressive price point.

Even my guitarist SO, who prefers to play through old school design Fender tube amps said she thought the Katana Artist sounded more than acceptable enough to use in virtually any gig. And when you added in the convenience of the onboard effects plus the ability to change them in software, the convenience and cost savings alone became very compelling arguments. Especially when a Katana Artist is going for $600 new on the street. Which is roughly the cost of three or four halfway decent effects pedals. And a 50-watt 1x12 version with an only slightly reduced feature set costs a mere $220 most places. Definitely something people will be looking at.



Can a bass version be far behind?

So…is analog soon to be dead? No. But it’s certainly about to get some very serious competition.