• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Live performance - have analog effects pedals had their day?

#41
Beheroth said:
I find it ironic, that, while having embraced the modern, lightweight and efficient class D amp,bass players still poopie on digital modeling, while guitarist have gone balls deep into the modeling world with the kemper/axe fx/helix and have only a handful of class D power amps and zero amps available to them.

So is digital the future, yes it is but it's also the present : watch any rig rundown video, there's an axe/kemper/helix in 90% of them, either taking care only of the FX or replacing the whole rig.

Why ? because touring, especially international touring. When touring abroad, you need to go with the smallest rig, which is now made possible by the different modeling technology. Also, less gear = easier travelling = less roadies = more money. Which is not something negligeable when you're a small/medium act trying to earn a living by touring !

Also units like the Kemper and the Axe fx are great studio units, they're now the gold standard.

But don't worry guys, analog isn't dead yet and won't ever be, just look at tube amps : an outdated technology, yet still here.
Click to expand...
Oh please! Outdated technology my butt. Is the acoustic guitar outdated technology? How about the violin? Digital audio technology is 40 years old now so all you're doing is substituting one outdated technology for another. You will have to do way better than the lame "outdated technology" argument to sell your argument.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bflat, br1qbat, Sunset Shalom and 2 others
#42
Tube amplification is an outdated technology, it's a fact. It's been replaced in every other sector, the only ones still using it are the "audiophiles" (and some military application says wikipedia).
Tubes are inefficient, fragile and require heavy transformers.
Yes, they sound cool but that's it.
 
#43
Just picked up a Line6 HD500x used (mint condition) for $300. The software editor is pretty sweet. The capabilities are off the charts.

After a couple two hour sessions with the manuals and the unit hooked up to the editor, it’s making sense.

It’s a bit over whelming, like unboxing a dozen amps, dozens of pedals, and controls all at once. There will be hours of exploration, but building patches will be straightforward. It’s going to be fun. And I can share patches and settings.

On the other hand, I’d keep my M-80 pre/di and the Smoothie comp in my bag. The KISS rig.

I don’t think pedals are going away any time soon, but multi fx are coming right along.

Whatever gear a guy is using, mastering using the gear is the key.
 
#44
I'm open to new technology, but currently use a mix of analog and digital. I won't move to an integrated digital multi-effects unit until I see the following:

A best-in-class polyphonic octave algorithm (up and down),
a solid multi-band compressor algorithm,
a good 4-channel polyphonic pitch shifter with the ability to detune in cents,
and a well-thought-out interface optimized for performance.

If anyone can tell me such a product exists, I'm interested in knowing about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: instrumentalist
#45
As good as they can get it would never be practical for me ... my needs are so minimal effects wise, that it would be a waste of money. Still I can see where the future is headed but again I've still got 50 year old amps and have never even played through a "class D" amp but understand how they are right for many folks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: br1qbat
#46
Spacecase said:
A best-in-class polyphonic octave algorithm (up and down),
a solid multi-band compressor algorithm,
a good 4-channel polyphonic pitch shifter with the ability to detune in cents,
and a well-thought-out interface optimized for performance.
Click to expand...
Those are no small demands.

But they are totally reasonable demands. As soon as one and the same product meets every one of them convincingly, I will feel multi-effects will have come of age.

Then we'll be talking money, endlessly... :wacky:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spacecase
#47
I know too many people who swear by analog gear, yet when I send them samples of my recorded bass tone they all say "tubes really shine through" despite the fact I used a VST to process the tracks. When I tell them I lied about using a tube preamp to make the recording, awkward hilarity ensues. I haven't met one person who swears by analog gear, who'll tell me "hmm definitely does not sound like tubes, in fact it sounds bad", that's the fact of the matter.

Now, another fact is, analog will sound DIFFERENT [not better or worse necessarily] so it will have its share in the market. But as it becomes less and less convenient to use, and more expensive, it'll someday be pushed further away from the market it is on now. That's how things go, people will adapt to different sounds, different controls, and that'll be it.

In the guitar world, digital effects like a tube screamer are nowadays indistinguishable from the model they are based off, and even people who claim they can tell which battery is powering which pedal in the chain just from the sound, are falling short off their promises they can tell analog from digital in more than 50% cases. It's the wine tasting snobism all over again with audiophiles and I don't respect that approach one bit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wmmj, Al Krow and Beheroth
#49
Beheroth said:
I find it ironic, that, while having embraced the modern, lightweight and efficient class D amp,bass players still poopie on digital modeling...
Click to expand...
Uh... Isn't that why people are using SansAmps, TC Electronic Tone Prints, GK Plex cab sims, bass heads with emulator circuits, and so on?

I don't think many bass players are dumping on emulation. Maybe it's that they are obsessed with the SVT sound, and aren't interested in emulating anything else. :D


So is digital the future, yes it is but it's also the present : watch any rig rundown video, there's an axe/kemper/helix in 90% of them, either taking care only of the FX or replacing the whole rig.
Click to expand...
I've gotten sucked into a few of those, and haven't seen that (yet). Most of the time, players combine single- and multi-effect pedals on their boards.

I'd also say this really shouldn't be "analog vs digital." It should be "single vs multi," as there are plenty of digital single-purpose stomp boxes.


Why ? because touring, especially international touring. When touring abroad, you need to go with the smallest rig, which is now made possible by the different modeling technology. Also, less gear = easier travelling = less roadies = more money.
Click to expand...
True, but pedals (and class D heads) are pretty small. Thus, a player like Janek Gwizdala can travel internationally with a few basses, a small pedal board, a class D 500w head, and get a fairly consistent sound without a lot of bulk or weight.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wmmj, Al Krow and Frodolicious
#51
I was one of the people that fell into the rabbit hole of seemingly neverending options with digital multis. I found I’m much more effective with the limitations of analog gear. Other than my digital wireless and recording gear all the gear I currently own is analog. But I don’t hate on digital gear, I think companies like Strymon, fractal, line 6, and kemper are doing some great stuff. Particularly in that they are allowing touring bands to save a ton of money on hired help, shipping, and so on. We used a Kemper on our last album. It allowed us to record over several months and take our gear out of the studio for gigs between sessions without having to try bring gear back in and match tones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wmmj and Al Krow
#52
Fiset said:
I admit to being intrigued by the Helix but I've followed the Helix threads here and the technical issues that seem to pop up are enough to keep me from dumping my individual stomps in favor of an all in one option.
Click to expand...

I have read the odd technical issue here and there. I've had it for some 6 months, updated the firmware twice, moved all my files to a new computer, etc, etc, etc. Smooth as silk. I would imagine their issues are probably just as common as other technologies'.

Frank77 said:
Digital multi-effects units have certainly improved a lot since I got rid of my Boss ME-8B, but a lot of their effects still sound gimmicky (IMO - the presets in particular are more often than not cartoonish and unusable) and I'm not interested in a large footprint unit that needs a dedicated wall wart if just 2-3 effects are good enough to me.
Click to expand...

I won't debate if they do sound cartoonish to you. I personally find them extraordinary and lively. And the Helix does not need a dedicated wall-wart. It has an internal power supply.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wmmj
#53
You can't get the Diamond bass compressor, halo chorus, fulltone catalyst, catalinbread super chili picoso and sansamp paradriver all in one unit, can you? I suppose the Kemper could take a snapshot of it. •_• Sigh.
 
Last edited:
#54
I'd like to listen to a good demo of the helix if anyone can find one. What I'm hearing just isn't cutting the mustard imo. Preferably one without a bunch of backing tracks mucking up what I'm trying to hear.

And if you don't have a decent set of headphones or speakers, you probably won't hear what I'm hearing.
 
Last edited:
#55
NOVAX said:
You can't get the Diamond compressor, halo chorus, fulltone catalyst, catalinbread super chili picoso and sansamp paradriver all in one unit, can you? I suppose the Kemper could take a snapshot of it.
Sigh.
Click to expand...

Truth be told, though, that's not exactly correct, since "the unit" can also be "a laptop with an interface" which you can equip with VST plugins, since digital processors are just computers anyways.

So, in "one unit" (if it's a laptop with audio interface) you can get more things than you could ever imagine exist.
 
#56
InternetAlias said:
Truth be told, though, that's not exactly correct, since "the unit" can also be "a laptop with an interface" which you can equip with VST plugins, since digital processors are just computers anyways.

So, in "one unit" (if it's a laptop with audio interface) you can get more things than you could ever imagine exist.
Click to expand...

I'm lost and completely lost. I'm sure it's a beast. My job is to play on point bass guitar while singing angelic vocals in three and four part harmony. Pedals are just there to enhance the experience. Our soundman loves the paradriver. He says "that's what a bass feed should sound like." He is a big proponent of the cardioid subwoofer and through experience, so am I.

That is all.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back