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Live sound chit chat

#21
Munjibunga said:
The Lounge at PSW is for us tyros.
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True! Lots of funny guys here as well.

I recently had my trusty Peavey bass amp quit on me immediately following soundcheck. I use the line 6 wireless like a lot of guys do, and as I'm walking back on stage from out in the bar, my amp goes nuts. The protect light goes on steady and it is just blaring this awesome midrange static/goose honk sound. I run up and turn it off.

I unplug everything hoping that it was a wireless issue or a bad cable, about a second to warm up and.... bwaaaaaaaahhhh!!!!!!! Again with the goose honk sound. But only for a few seconds and then poof! Nothing.

And the other guys look at me and shrug, with the "I don't know dude, figure it out" :hmm:

So I had a whole night of me just DI'd into the pa (which actually sounded great out front) and a little in the monitors. We use 12"+horn ev cabs as sidefills for vocals and they sound great for that, not so good for bass to come honking through because I've got no rig running on stage.

We made it through the night, and the good news is that heavy old bastard Peavey amp is being repaired and will soon be back in action!

Derek
 
#22
Balog said:
Any opinions on carpeting/padding for underneath the band at my church? It's inside a gym, with the boomy hardwood floor and cinder block walls and all. We have a large heavy velvet type cloth backdrop, and we have some thin rugs for the band to set up on. Would some deeper pile carpets be better?
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Unfortunately, it won't help you much if at all. The rest of the room is still a problem.

I can still remember high school dances in the basketball gym. If you climbed into an empty dumpster and someone started beating on it with a hammer, you'd have a pretty good idea of what it sounded like.
 
#23
ggunn said:
Unfortunately, it won't help you much if at all. The rest of the room is still a problem.

I can still remember high school dances in the basketball gym. If you climbed into an empty dumpster and someone started beating on it with a hammer, you'd have a pretty good idea of what it sounded like.
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+1 The problem is that expanse of cinderblock walls. It's just one big echo chamber. We occasionally play a VFW dance hall that's the same configuration and we honestly have to run at a lower volume than in a club half the size.
 
#24
Glad to hear you made it through the gig Derek! It seems that Peaveys are all the same; they mostly keep on chugging forever, but on the rare occasion that they do die, they go out with a bang. (or a quack).

Also, +1 to sports halls being awful for running live sound in. But hey, you work with what you have. getting the guitar/bass amps on stands or tables (or even just chairs!) will help a little, also, if it's a big hall, could you curtain off one half and set up near the middle? Having the speakers at the midway point of the room instead of one end will also help.
 
#26
I actually own the PA for the band my wife is in and run the sound for other bands as well. My gear;

Yamaha BR12 Monitors
Yamaha S115V Mains
Yamaha SM15 Subs
Crown XLS 2000 for Mains
Crown XLS 2500 for Subs
Yamaha EMX 5000 powered mixer for Monitors
16 channel snake with 4 returns
Assorted Mics

I also have a Peavey 16FX Mixer I'm wanting to use but, I need 1 more amp to run the monitors before I can use the Peavey.
I'm running sound tonite for a new band, I'll let you know how it turns out !
 
#27
ggunn said:
Unfortunately, it won't help you much if at all. The rest of the room is still a problem.

I can still remember high school dances in the basketball gym. If you climbed into an empty dumpster and someone started beating on it with a hammer, you'd have a pretty good idea of what it sounded like.
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+1

Maybe it would help if you could also "strategically" place foam in certain place of the room, or even some monitors to "fill" (I think they are called that in english) the back of the room. I mean, speakers facing the stage at a lower volume, so they drown out any eco.
 
#28
Jimbob Jones said:
Glad to hear you made it through the gig Derek! It seems that Peaveys are all the same; they mostly keep on chugging forever, but on the rare occasion that they do die, they go out with a bang. (or a quack).
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Those old solid state amps were built like tanks. A friend of mine was playing a gig many years ago (opening for Bob Seger), and his amp was one of those blue metal flake rolled and pleated Kustom amps with the cab with three vertically stacked 15" speakers with the ports. They were up on about a five foot stage over a concrete floor and his amp was right near the edge, so the head was what, ten feet or so off the floor of the hall. Can you see where this is going?

After their sound check, he was clearing his spot on the stage and when he bent over to pick up something, he bumped his (powered up) amp with his butt and knocked it over. The head went over the edge of the stage and bounced three times on the concrete.

Oh, spit.

At first he thought he had destroyed the amp, but it turned out that the only damage to it was that the hot filament of the power indicator lamp broke from the shock. He restacked the amp and played the gig.
 
#29
Well, the much-anticipated 'orchestra' was actually a 7-piece ensemble. Well done musical director! :p

Still, with some careful micing and a sparing amount of reverb, I had it sounding pretty full. I'll try to get a recording of Sunday's service, if anyone's interested?
 
#31
I have a gripe about live sound. So often I go to concerts where the bass is just a wall of woof. What is with sound guys? I'm not talking amateurs with a 300watt PA, I'm talking Rolling Stones, Joe Satriani, that level. I know the bass players were playing... I could see them wiggling their fingers, I just could not hear a damn note!
Another gripe. I played support for Tower of Power a while back. I must admit the sound man made Rocco sound sweet. I, however, got 2 seconds check to make sure I was actually making some noise..... and I sounded like arse.
Another gripe. I have been at sound checks many times where the sound man will spend 1/2 hour eqing the drums, and will ensure the kick drum pushes your sternum back to meet your backbone and causes heart palpitations, then it's the bassist's turn. Play a couple of notes... OK got ya.... next....
Sheesh, I must be getting too old for this... :hmm:
 
#33
I tend to mix the bass a bit louder in the mix than I personally think is best. I find that audiences respond better when I do. I don't mean the bass is up front, just a bit louder than I think is optimal.

What I am worried about is that I will get used to the current sound and mix it just a bit louder every time. I guess I will notice when the bass is overpowering the vocals ;)

So how do others deal with this sort of "sound creep"? How do you keep a reference level? Or do you just judge by where a sound is in relationship to the vocals? Or do you use something else as a reference?
 
#34
Marty Forrer said:
..... then it's the bassist's turn. Play a couple of notes... OK got ya.... next....
Sheesh, I must be getting too old for this... :hmm:
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I would take that as a compliment , the guy didn't have to EQ the heck out of your sound.

"sounds good , next! "


I'd be worried if a soundman passes more than 2 minutes on my bass sound.
More than 5 minutes on any given instruments is suspiscious.
Only justified if there is bad gear or bad acoustics.
Nothing justifies a bad source.
 
#35
fokof said:
I would take that as a compliment , the guy didn't have to EQ the heck out of your sound.

"sounds good , next! "


I'd be worried if a soundman passes more than 2 minutes on my bass sound.
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I play a P bass with flats, so sound guys need maybe 3 notes to dial it in ;) Really all they have to do is get the level right.

As an aside, I asked one sound guy that I trust about compression and he said he didn't use it on bass unless it was really needed. Mainly for people who slapped or had no control.
 
#36
Marty Forrer said:
I have a gripe about live sound. So often I go to concerts where the bass is just a wall of woof. What is with sound guys? I'm not talking amateurs with a 300watt PA, I'm talking Rolling Stones, Joe Satriani, that level. I know the bass players were playing... I could see them wiggling their fingers, I just could not hear a damn note!
Click to expand...

I know the feeling man, I know a few PA guys who only put the bass through the sub, and leave it muted in the tops! I think the problem stems from sound guys simply not understanding the role of the instrument.

Marty Forrer said:
Another gripe. I played support for Tower of Power a while back. I must admit the sound man made Rocco sound sweet. I, however, got 2 seconds check to make sure I was actually making some noise..... and I sounded like arse.
Another gripe. I have been at sound checks many times where the sound man will spend 1/2 hour eqing the drums, and will ensure the kick drum pushes your sternum back to meet your backbone and causes heart palpitations, then it's the bassist's turn. Play a couple of notes...OK got ya... next...
Click to expand...

That's partly to do with how sound guys build a mix. For rock bands, the key to a good sound is a really solid drum mix (IMO). It's important to spend the time getting them sounding great alone, then you can build the rest of the mix around the great sounding drums. Also (again, IMO), it's pretty futile mixing/EQ'ing the bass, guitars, synth, etc on their own; you do a line check on each to make sure you have signal, then blend them together while the band plays all together.

seanm said:
So how do others deal with this sort of "sound creep"? How do you keep a reference level? Or do you just judge by where a sound is in relationship to the vocals? Or do you use something else as a reference?
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I get this problem a lot. The trick is to listen out for what's too loud, rather than what's too quiet. When working in subtle changes, it's actually quite tricky; if the mix is 'near right', it's much easier to identify what you can't hear properly, than to pick out what's a smidge overpowering. A good approach is to identify what you can't hear, then leave that fader where it is, and turn other things down a tad and see what results you get.
 
#37
Jimbob Jones said:
I get this problem a lot. The trick is to listen out for what's too loud, rather than what's too quiet. When working in subtle changes, it's actually quite tricky; if the mix is 'near right', it's much easier to identify what you can't hear properly, than to pick out what's a smidge overpowering. A good approach is to identify what you can't hear, then leave that fader where it is, and turn other things down a tad and see what results you get.
Click to expand...

I should try that. A problem is that I don't control the two loudest instruments: lead guitar and drums. I try to build everything around the drum volume.
 
#38
I mix for my church.

We use a Roland M-400 V-Mixer.

We have a pair of JBL speakers as mains, they were meant to be our "travel" speakers, but when our old mains blew out, we started using these.

Worship team has 2-6 vocalists, 2-3 guitarists, 2 keyboard players, 1 bassist and a drummer.

We have a SPL meter that we use with "A" weighting and try to keep the volume level around 90-94dB. Although if the mix is nice and clear without any muddyness or harshness, it's pretty easy to get away with 98.

I mix every Saturday and every Wednesday.
 
#39
Jimbob Jones said:
Also (again, IMO), it's pretty futile mixing/EQ'ing the bass, guitars, synth, etc on their own; you do a line check on each to make sure you have signal, then blend them together while the band plays all together.
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+1

That's how I work too.

I start with the drums alone mainly to cut the often 'troublesome' ringing frequencies. It's a minority of drummers who knows how to tune a drum , so sometimes , lots of work is needed there :)
Then set the gain structure for all instruments and EQ them while they play together.
Vocal will usually need more work , especialy if there is loud monitoring need.
( or if monitors are made on the FOH board )

When there is a monitor board , I let the monitor guy drive the soundcheck. He has 7-8-9 mixes to do , I only have one....
 
#40
Mixed on a really wonderful system this weekend. FOH speakers were 4 JTR 3 ways on top of 4 JTR Orbit Shifter subs, all powered by Crown I-Tech's. 5 QSC K series powered boxes for wedges, plus a Mackie powered top + 18" powered sub for the drummer's monitor. Presonus Studiolive console, Heil drum mic package. Everything properly configured and well organized.

Heil may be making the best mics for the money anywhere these days.
 

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