• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Locating harmonics

Mark_T

Mark_T

Aug 8, 2007
1,578
1,482
Copenhagen, DK / Bellingham, WA
#1
I'm playing a piece that has a few harmonics notated that I'm having trouble locating on my bass. I find harmonic notation a bit inconsistent and therefore confusing, but I think the trouble here is actually the notes, not the notation.

The notes in question are an E flat above middle C and the C# above middle C. Above the staff is the direction "actual sounding pitch", which leads me to believe that I need to find a harmonic that rings these notes (probably in the correct octave, not the usual 8vb that we generally assume). A few lines before the troublesome notes, there's another harmonic notated 'flag' which leads me to believe that in that case, I'm to play the harmonic located at that position on the bass rather than the harmonic that would produce that tone. The fact that both notations are used seems to indicate that it's not an accident.

I think I can get the C# to ring on my A string in first position, but the E flat has me stumped.

Does anyone have any suggestions for where I might find these notes, or at least a systematic way to look for them?
 
#2
I know that you can get a C# harmonic on the A string by touching the string right over C# (that's how I check my intonation at that point). Same for the other strings: Ab on E string, F# on D string; B on G string.

I don't know about the Eb.

BTW, you can play "Amazing Grace" by using the harmonics in the third, fourth, and fifth "fret" positions on adjacent strings. Start at the A harmonic on the A string.
 
#5
see if you can find the ravel harmonic notation guide put out by miami U. i picked it up at my local sheet music store for like, 5 bucks canadian. most composers seem to follow this notation, and it also shows you approximately where to put your fingers.

eerbrev
 
#7
>> Perhaps the composer assumes you have a 5er tuned BEADG?

That occurred to me, too, but if you touched the B string at the D#/Eb position, it would give you Eb *below* middle C, not above. :confused:

Does the score indicate a natural harmonic or an artificial harmonic? Perhaps you could post a scanned image of the relevant passage.
 
#8
The piece is Janacek's The Cunning Little Vixen; it's a reduced arrangement (only 16 players) put out fairly recently. I've attached images of the E flat and C sharp.

Note that below the C sharp, someone wrote in "1A". Below the E flat the same handwriting reads "2A".

E flat:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

C sharp:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#9
I ordered the Ravel book, but it has to come all the way across the country. I've also sent copies of the relevant bars to my teacher, so if we figure out an answer, I'll be sure to post it.

For now in rehearsals I'll probably just play the note stopped. I've got another few weeks before I have to have a definite answer.

I don't have a fiver, but I do have a C-extension.
 
#11
tstone said:
>> Perhaps the composer assumes you have a 5er tuned BEADG?

That occurred to me, too, but if you touched the B string at the D#/Eb position, it would give you Eb *below* middle C, not above. :confused:

Does the score indicate a natural harmonic or an artificial harmonic? Perhaps you could post a scanned image of the relevant passage.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you'd have to very carefully touch your low C# on the B string! Over here most players will access this harmonic by touching the thumb to the octave and the third finger a M3 above that. Certainly safer on the lower strings.

The notation doesn't indicate how to get the harmonics, just the intended pitch, but I think that a five-string was in the plan, considering the piece is adapted from a 20th C. central European orchestral work.

If you don't have access to a five string you could also do it with a gated fingered extension. Otherwise you could either do a false harmonic, or just play the actual note and try to make it sound like a harmonic?
 
#12
robobass said:
Yeah, you'd have to very carefully touch your low C# on the B string! Over here most players will access this harmonic by touching the thumb to the octave and the third finger a M3 above that. Certainly safer on the lower strings.

The notation doesn't indicate how to get the harmonics, just the intended pitch, but I think that a five-string was in the plan, considering the piece is adapted from a 20th C. central European orchestral work.

If you don't have access to a five string you could also do it with a gated fingered extension. Otherwise you could either do a false harmonic, or just play the actual note and try to make it sound like a harmonic?
Click to expand...

I found a way to make the false harmonic. If I stop my A string with my thumb on a C sharp or an E flat, I can reach the harmonic that rings two octaves higher with my index finger. It's a little awkward, but I think I have rests enough to set it up.
 
#13
mjt0229 said:
I found a way to make the false harmonic. If I stop my A string with my thumb on a C sharp or an E flat, I can reach the harmonic that rings two octaves higher with my index finger. It's a little awkward, but I think I have rests enough to set it up.
Click to expand...

Edit: I realized (Duh:() that the note doesn't lie on the fingerboard of most basses, so yes a falsie is required if you're playing a regular four-stringer. I think it would be much easier though to play the C# as a natural harmonic, and do the Eb by thumbing the first Eb on the G-string and touching the Ab above with the third finger. You could also do the same thing a fourth higher on the D if you don't like thumbing below the octave.

I still can't imagine what the handwritten "1A" and "2A" might mean.
 
#15
>> I think it would be much easier though to ... do the Eb by thumbing the first Eb on the G-string and touching the Ab above with the third finger.​

Problem with that is that it gives a pitch an octave higher than desired, i.e., an octave plus a minor third above middle C rather than just a minor third above middle C.

Of all the ways to get the Eb harmonic suggested so far, I like mjt0229's latest A-string method the best, although it's quite a stretch. I have to use my fourth finger on the Ab node rather than the index.

On the other topic: in some editions, notations like "1a" and "2a" stand for the Italian "prima" and "seconda," meaning play on the first or second string respectively. Doesn't seem to make much sense in this case, though.
 
#16
tstone said:

...
Problem with that is that it gives a pitch an octave higher than desired, i.e., an octave plus a minor third above middle C rather than just a minor third above middle C.
...
​
Click to expand...


Actually...you're right. All of this "actual pitch" stuff gets confusing. I just tried thumbing the lowest Eb on the A-string and found that I can just make the third partial a fourth above with my third finger. I also thought of a really radical way to do it on the "G". Can anyone guess how? Hint: Steve Martin:rollno:​
 
#20
It's easy to follow natural harmonics. 1st one - divide the string in half. It's the octave. Lets say its G on the G string.
Next - and you can go toward the bridge or the same distance toward the nut - it's the 5th above the octave - D. Next its the 4th or G again. Then it's a third or B. Then comes a minor third D. Usually toward the bridge sounds better.
So - root, octave, 5th, 4th. 3rd. minor third and keep going. Maybe you can get more.
Tom Gale
ASODB.com
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9mmMike

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back