Double Bass Long row of staccato up bows

[Les Fret]

Do you any tips on how to do an extended passage of staccato up bows?
1) how do you prevent running out of bow at the end?
2) do you have to play them on or off the string? I mean more like spiccato or not?

see attached example of a Nanny etude that I am practicing right now.

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• Les Fret
• May 21, 2018

 

[wathaet]

You need to learn on, off, and a brush middleground. What is appropriate depends on the tempo and musical context.
Start with a simpler passage or single note, then progress to two ovtave scales. Do four 16ths up and quarter down. Then add more and more.
Repeat same with opposite bowing, then staccato on both up and down.
Take a look at Mahler four, first movement and practise those passages with a metronome. I personally start that one from the string for timing reasons.

 

[Les Fret]

You need to learn on, off, and a brush middleground. What is appropriate depends on the tempo and musical context.

The context in this case is the Nanny etude and the tempo is allegro
is there a video that demonstrates this kind of thing? You see it on violin more often I think.

 

[csrund]

This might help:

If you play German bow, substitute thumb when she talks about index finger.

 

[Les Fret]

Ok thanks. That was helpful. Just what I thought it was. Playing French bow using the index finger and staying on the string. I was doing it like that but need to get better control and practice it more. It is kind of hard to get the same sound and shortness when you reach the frog.

 

[Les Fret]

Making some progress. What helped me is playing the same passages in normal up bow legato first. Also practicing repeated up bows (and down bows) and trying to stay in one place of the bow.
Still not sure if I have to use more of the index finger or the arm. Notes tend to get more staccato near the frog.I am finding repeated up bows a little bit more easy than repeated down bows. But it's getting there....

 

[the_Ryan]

Making some progress. What helped me is playing the same passages in normal up bow legato first. Also practicing repeated up bows (and down bows) and trying to stay in one place of the bow.
Still not sure if I have to use more of the index finger or the arm. Notes tend to get more staccato near the frog.I am finding repeated up bows a little bit more easy than repeated down bows. But it's getting there....

Generally up bow staccato is easier for French bow and down bow staccato is easier for German

 

[David Potts]

You must be a glutton for punishment!! I got as far as the Mahler 4 passage before running out of patience with this bowing. I can't remember any other real-life example in the common orchestral repertoire, can you? I guess that developing the fine wrist and finger motor skills would assist articulating very fast dotted rythms clearly, eg Schubert's 9th Symphony.

 

[Les Fret]

Haha..Yes that's me. Love punishing myself. I guess you have to if you want to play this instrument.

In all my years of playing never came along such a long slur of staccato up bows. You see it in violin and cello solo pieces more often. It's still good practice for bow control.

 

[Mark_T]

I saw Mahler 4 with the BSO a few years ago, and the whole section played that staccato up bow passage like they were one huge bass. In that hall, you can hear everything. It was amazing.

 

[David Potts]

A few thoughts (without the bass in front of me) -

(1) On any given note the further the contact point is from the bridge then the faster the bow must move to support the string vibrations.
(2) Bow contact point will be important and should move to follow the rising or falling notes. In theory the lowest notes should use less bow than the high ones however the string vibrates faster as pitch rises and needs faster bow speed to support tone and projection. In reality the notes might end up each needing the same length if the contact point does move.
(3) I would try starting the up bow with the contact point as close as practical to the bridge so that each little up-stroke can be shorter. This will depend on your bow quality, bass, rosin and strings.
(4) The first beat requires a much faster moving whole bow stroke than the following up bow. There needs to be a feeling of physical balance during the abrupt change in order to control the shape and dynamics.
(5) If I do not wish to accent the first dotted eighth notes then I will start them at almost normal speed to set the string in motion before I release the weight and stretch quickly towards the point of the bow, just brushing the string enough to maintain the sound.
(6) I separate the sixteenth note slightly, giving it its own short down stroke with the idea that this note belongs to the following ones, not the previous dotted note. It is this separation that gives me the balance to control the following multiple short staccato up bows.

I suggest first playing one note backwards and forwards in a number of steps before introducing the sixteenths into the scale. With a metronome set at about 80bpm play a quarter note down bow followed by a three-beat up bow that shows you the down bow will move approximately three times faster than the up bow. Then introduce the sixteenth note into the end of the first beat. Still on one note introduce the up bow staccato gradually, first in groups of 4 notes per bow then 8 notes and 12 notes.

I might think of the large almost steady arm movement taking three beats while the wrist and fingers combine to produce the small separate movements like a series of catch-ups with the arm. Alternately I would work on developing small twitches in the biceps with relaxed flexible fingers and wrist to develop the short movements.

I must get onto my own bass to confirm the above!