Double Bass Looking for 34" or 35" electric uprights

[jamiefoxer]

jamie,

quite agree that Tony Banda is a groove monster and his sound is equally monsterous. maybe try sending him a message on the Banda Brothers myspace page to inquire about his Gypsy bass?

the story behind the Gypsy bass, Tony wanted something real portable for touring. he kept asking Jill and Steve Azola until they came up with the Gypsy. It's actually named after Tony. the Banda (like the Jimi Hendrix group, Band of Gypsies) Gypsy bass!

an option offered for the Gypsy is the adjustable "Mambo Mute" that emulates that thumpy huge tone of the old Baby Bass. wonderful device that gets an ideal latin sound in my opinion. I had the chance to try a hollow bodied Gypsy at the Azola workshop that had the mute and loved it. however, I ended up ordering a Electroacoustic Baby bass. still, the Gypsy was so much fun to play, it's still on my wish list.

Now..see...this is the advice I needed. If it can get the ideal Latin sound...on a 34" neck...I'm sold. I want to send a message to Tony and see what he says about it. But, it's mostly for Latin gigs that I want this upright. Thanks for that info!

 

[buddyro57]

Eds' cranky comment for the day:

It's mostly because it's all cats like you, who want to look like they're playing upright but don't want to put the work in.

Oh brother.... this kid is not asking for your sermon, maybe you misunderstood the point of his initial post. Guys our age have to remember that not everyone is seeking to be placed on the "right" track. ANYWAY, the cheapest route would be to borrow a Dean, try some tapewraps and a foam mute. With a little patience and some experimenting with the EQ, you will get something serviceable.....maybe not to Ed's liking, but probably OK to suit the band and audience. As we all know: alot of it has to do with the sound you hear in your head, and understanding the function that the bass is to provide in the music you are playing. Good luck and don't get too worried about the disapproving wringing of hands by we "elders'.
JS

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Oh brother.... this kid is not asking for your sermon,
JS

If that's the case, why would anyone buy them, if they're going for the upright sound?

Then why did he phrase it in the form of a question?

 

[damonsmith]

I have to side with Ed here. He isn't being cranky, he is telling it like it is. Dean's and those other short, non-bowable EUBs are just for show. They are bass guitars on sticks and really just a waste of time.
Either you want to play upright bass or you don't.
There are plenty of really good sounding EUBs out there.

Obviously this:

I I'm figuring much of it comes having to learn Simandl technique to really be able to play a 41" instrument. I'm a multi-percussionist, drummer, and electric bassist, so I really do not have the time to add an extra technique study to my practice regimen.

Does not sit well with most people here. My advice is to wait until you have the time (with a good teacher it can be as little as 30 min. a day) and then get an EUB with a real scale.

 

[buddyro57]

OK fellas, I understand that this is an opinion call. My opinion is that these 2 quotes sound needlessly condescending, if you don't see it that way, fine.

Then just stick an endpin in a Fender Precision and have done with it.

and

It's mostly because it's all cats like you, who want to look like they're playing upright but don't want to put the work in.

We have all paid our dues on this instrument, its not a red badge of courage, its a choice about where to put your emphasis....if he wants to put it somewhere else, or divide it between other areas, that's his choice.
And Damon, there are plenty of circles where you and I would both catch our share of BS just for playing EUBs, you know.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

And, Sparky, nobody is saying that he can't or is a subhuman fit only to be sold as a pet to wealthy Chinese if that's the decision he wants to make. I'll even go so far as to say that if he has no interest in playing upright, if the sound that coalesces meaning from chaos (for him) is electric bass then it would be the height of stupidity for him to spend ANY time playing upright.

If you've bothered to read anything I've written during my tenure here, then one phrase should be familiar - playing upright bass is not a qualification of character, it doesn't make you a "better person". It has no moral intimations at all. This should sound familiar too, the only reason to play upright is because that's the sound you hear in your head whenever you hear yourself playing bass.

Look you can continue to feel condescended upon all you want to, I'll continue to maintain that's mostly because of stuff somebody else said to you at some other time. I'm sorry if people were mean to you because you play an EUB, but that wasn't me and that wasn't here. I will also continue to maintain that there is no substantive difference in playing a Kydd on a stick or a Fender on a stick.
Or even a Fender with a strap.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

I don't get it. Personally, if I were looking for a pragmatic solution, I'd run out and buy a fretless Carvin AC40 or AC50(5 stringer), slap on some labella tapewounds and start messing around with a good preamp. I almost went that route before I started DB. Turning a fretboard upwards does not turn a 34" scale bass into a DB. The bigger point is that the technique changes because upright players pull with more meat on their fingers. You could just alter your EB technique and try to get that sound. Much cheaper and less hassle.

 

[SBassman]

Folks, the Dean Pace might be nothing more than a fretless on
a stand, but there are Certainly many EUBs out there that are
way smaller than a monstrous full DB yet Do coax Some Legitimate
upright tone.

Lots of unnecessary verbal diarrhea in this thread.
Delivered with less than a kind tone.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

there are Certainly many EUBs out there that are
way smaller than a monstrous full DB yet Do coax Some Legitimate
upright tone.

Depends on what you define as "legit". Every EUB I've owned does not exhibit a tone in terms that if I close my eyes, I'm hearing an acoustic DB. I have owned 3 thus far. The closest I can get is the sound of an acoustic DB that is using a piezo pickup - and even then it's not the same. EUBs can only go so far in creating the same air - most of which comes from the long string length but obviously doens't have the big box. My Yamaha EUB sounds more like an inbetween DB/EB. I just played a session a few weeks ago, I loved the sound but it was more electric like. Same goes with the NSD CR4. I have tapewound strings on an old solidbody EB - all of them sorta sound similar, but the EUB's have a slightly different sound because of the string lengths. It's deeper/fuller.

Seriously, if you want to cop the sound without actually doing it, you need to try tapewound strings first, then possibly something that is a hollowbody (like a Rick Tuner or an AC40 like I mentioned). If that doesn't give you the sound you want, then I would consider getting an EUB. Tapewound strings are cheap. Labella makes them and I have a Fender set.

But if the OP really wants to get a Tony Banda sound, then by all means, do what he does.

 

[BassFelt]

I've been playing a Takamine B10 for close to a decade now. It's a large acoustic/electric bass guitar designed to be played upright, but it can be played horizontal as well, sitting down. I chose it because I didn't want to reschool for upright bass, but I wanted a sound closer to an upright. I am thouroughly pleased with this thing. I certainly don't claim to sound exactly like an upright, but I did find some kind of middle ground. I like it way better than most upright stick basses. I get favourable comments about the sound from collegues, audience and sound guys. Most (with the notable exception of upright players) say to them it sounds like an upright. I don't claim that, but that is what people perceive.

Playing the instrument upright does change the way I play on it, and sound on it. This is because of the position and angle of the right hand. It's also more comfortable, as the fingerboards' curve is much rounder than an Fender, more like an upright.

Check out Takamine sample on YouTube and make up your own mind.

(More on the links below.)

By the way, I A/B'd the Kydd 34" and Kydd upright scale stick basses, and that did make a huge difference. The 34" sounded much more like fretless BG and the large one much more like an upright.

 

[derrenleepoole]

Sounds like you want a Dean Pace. The Pace gets a lot of flack on this forum, I think unfairly. It's not amazingly made compared to some manufacturers, and yes it doesn't have a full radius neck - but it is portable and very fun to play - also it's cheap, especially second hand.

Any EUB is really an electric bass - period. So keeping that thought at the forefront of your mind, a Dean Pace with really good strings and creative EQ can deliver a good sounding DB-esq/thumpy fretless type tone easily.

I personally don't get the 'well just play a fretless' jibes that are thrown about when people start to ask questions you're asking. When you play in an upright position, it changes your mindset on how you play, and forces you to rethink and be more creative in your approach to playing. Who cares if it's not the 'all bells and whistles' EUB maker/model? As long as you have fun right? Good luck on your quest!

 

[matthewbrown]

Okay, I play an Azola acoustic baby bass. Every time I play it for/with jazzers they say, "That sounds just like an amplified acoustic bass -- only better." My musical partner, a total jazz head and purist, says the same thing. Now I agree with Ed Fuqua that nothing sounds like an acoustic bass played acoustically. But in most jazz settings, they are almost always amplified, and they lose that unique sound. Since so many of us have to double, I don't see that there is anything wrong with not playing a 3/4 size acoustic URB if you play in situations that require amplification, especially when portability is an issue. I also think it's perfectly understandable that BG players are concerned about playability issues, since so many physical problems can arise from playing unamplified acoustic URB (ask Christian McBride, for one).

The two instruments are different, but luthiers are building bridges between the two, and that is being driven by market demand. Let a 1000 flowers bloom.

 

[patman01]

I use a Pace onstage in my band Cincy Rockers--I use High tension Fender flatwounds cranked as high as they will go--I actually shimmed the bridge higher...

I use the instrument to double--as it's on a stand, I can play it without removing my electric bass--the show doesn't get stopped---it's great for old style Patsy Cline tunes--old Sun records Rockabilly --50's ballads..pretty stuff--sounds real good except for one deadish spot with a wolftone on e-flat

There's alot of dancing and jumping around on stage at a Rockers show--I wouldn't drag a fragile traditional upright on stage unless we were making enough money where I could have several uprights, and the constant repairs could be viewed as a part of the show, or a necessary cost of doing business.

Incidentally, I find you even need to use thumb position and Simandl fingerings on a Pace--of course you can "cheat" a lot more on a 35 inch bass.

It's just a "tool" to me that allows me to play some different styles of music.

 

[Impostor]

I'm thinking about EUB, too... and probably about a short-scale one. Yes, I know that I won't get a true acoustic bass sound - so what I am searching for, you might ask?

I love BG, but there's one thing I can't do with it. I can't bow. Well, sometimes I do bow some chello-like sounding simple tune on G string (and sometimes bowing an open D with it). And sometimes I loop a one-note drone on low B in ambient pieces. It adds to the music, but that's not real playing, for sure. And I was trained as a violin player, I love bow. Plus, I don't have a fretless BG, and I more and more come to double on a fretless instrument, especially when I began studying Indian music with all its glissandi (well, originally they are just deep bends on a scalloped neck, but they turn into glissandi when played on Western instruments). I thought of defretting my old BG, but it has too much problems with trussrod for that. So I started thinking of buying a second-hand BG and defretting it when I recalled of such a thing as EUB. In fact, it was Tony Levin's records that first made me bow my BG - I loved that sound so much. And I tried to play upright pizzicato on a BG, and I love that special feel, which also adds to the sound, though it still definitely has no such huge BODY. But I don't need it that much.

So I found out that the only extra instrument I needed is a second-hand short-scale EUB. For the price I can afford there's one Rob Wave 5-string on sale, and one 4-string Japanese Stud-B, but it's scale isn't mentioned, I've already posted a request about that. I think Rob Wave might be better, and it's a 5-string... but Stud-B is more portable, with no heavy stand, just an endpin. I can't quite surely say whether the neck radius is suitable for bowing, but I hope to get a reply from sellers... Did anyone try and compare these ones? I'd appreciate any advice, because I've not tried any EUB still.

 

[Impostor]

Okay, Rob Wave is said to be 'not curved enough for bowing'. And Stud-B is 42". God, it's a hard choice to tame a 42"...

 

[RBrownBass]

...But given that in salsa and latin jazz, just like in regular jazz, there's a purist crowd of 45-65 years olds who still reminisce about the sounds of the 70s, and 80s, as a bass player, you get overlooked if you don't play an Ampeg Baby or a similar instrument. In fact, without any arrogance and with a humble honest admission that I still got way to go in learning my instrument, my electric bass playing is WAY better than the skills of many of the local Ampeg Baby players who play with the local salsa bands...but they get hired because they play the Baby...and I get left because my sound is "not the sound" for salsa. Thankfully, due to my dedicated daily practice and considerable playing skills, and the fact that I often double up on other instruments, my name has spread around as a dependable "do it all" musician. But even with those advantages over mostly "one instrument" musicians who rarely practice their instruments, they're still getting most of the gigs.

Late to this thread, but I'll add my $0.02.

I've just recently purchased a 1997 Azola Vintage Reissue Baby for no good reason other than because I LOVE the sounds it gives me -piezo, blended and traditional Baby (I already own an acoustic upright and several slab basses). My upright gigs are straightahead and salsa, and because the Baby is by far my fave instrument, I plan on using it for everything that doesn't specifically call for a slab bass. All my gigs are amped, whether I'm playing BG, AUB or EUB.

There are plenty of good bassists in my area (North Alabama), but I don't expect to lose any work because of my decision. If I do, I just do. If someone is silly enough to consider a lesser player (your situation) because s/he gigs with an amped AUB, I probably wouldn't even try to accomodate them by offering to bring out my doghouse. They don't deserve it, and with an attitude like theirs, something's bound to go wrong down the road anyhow.

 

[GQBADBOY]

I've been reading this thread for sometime (because I own a Gypsy and am a novice salsa bass player - actually, I play piano).

Anyhow, when I purchased my Azola Gypsy, it didn't come with the mambo mute. Because my primary use for the bass is latin/salsa music, I decided to order a mambo mute.

I thought it would be as simple as calling Jill and Steve up, ordering the mute and having that piece sent to me.

I was told that now the process for getting the mute had changed and I had to send back my bass to them to be custom fitted.

At first I was reluctant, and even thought of making my own mute.

But after Jill's persuasion, I decided to send it. I recently got pictures sent of it and sound clips and the new design totally makes sense! (I even thought of a concept similar to this before I decided to send the bass back to them).

Here are the pictures - I will try to send the sound clip later:

 

[morebass!]

I play EBG and upright but am now purchasing a 34" scale electric upright primarily because of a bad back, shoulder, and wrist. The ergonomics of playing bass guitar can lead to these problems. I'm sure that there are ergonomic problems with the upright electrics too but they are different problems so it will at least buy me some time.

 

[powerbass]

I made my own 34" EUB as a transitional instrument from BG to eventually DB. I agree that the DB playing position and technique contributes to the DB sound as well as serious EQ. Mine has a hollow body that enhances an acoustic sound as well as a piezo PU. It is very portable - it fits into a BG gig bag, though it does require a drum stand.

 

[Francois Blais]

I made my own 34" EUB as a transitional instrument from BG to eventually DB. I agree that the DB playing position and technique contributes to the DB sound as well as serious EQ. Mine has a hollow body that enhances an acoustic sound as well as a piezo PU. It is very portable - it fits into a BG gig bag, though it does require a drum stand.

Cool! It's beautiful!
It is a Big Twin or Double Big twin you're using?

Best regards,
François