Looking for a different "flavor" fretless bass - long...

[AlexanderB]

Still looking for (and have not found) the "right" fretless bass for me. MI shops in Sweden have (normally) zero, (sometimes) one or (very seldom) two fretless display basses. So it is virtually impossible to compare different models and brands. (If they incredibly enough have TWO unfretted basses, it is probably one €400 Warwick Rockbass and one € 1800 Sandberg or something equally disparate.)

Below are my thoughts so far. All input is welcome.

What I like, tone wise:
Big (as in lots of bottom), balanced, lots of "mwah", long sustain, as little dead spot problems as possible. I do not like a too nasal "Jaco" bass sound and happily sacrifice a bit of "clarity" and "bite" to get warm, supportive lows and rich/compex mids. A slightly "compressed" tone (as in not so percussive transients) would be OK. For reference, I really like the sound of my EMG loaded Jazz Plus V, although that tone would maybe not work for fretless?

What I like, construction wise:
Four strings, as I feel it more natural than five, 34" scale, fretlines (yup), dual passive P/U, wide+thin neck rather than narrow+thick. Carbon fiber or steel bar reinforcements would probably be a good option, maybe even a full composite or alu neck? I feel "right at home" with both P and J, more than with any other bass so far.


So far I have played some fretless basses; Warwick Rockbass Corvette (mediocre electronics, dead spot galore, very little "mwah" in spite of good setup, Squier Fretless Jazz (tested three so far, all with decent tone but MASSIVE dead zones), MIM Jazz (no better than the Squier), and some other Ibanez etc. I have also some experience with a couple of luthier fretless - much better construction than the other ones but it is extremely hard to predict what a bass will sound like when you order a "first of its kind" hand made bass.


The Tony Franklin fretless is the upper limit in terms of cost (€1800 or so) but it is unlined and I have seen too many reports on dead spots on that model.

At this point I am considering order Warmoth parts and assemble it myself. The question still remains WHAT to order - body and neck wood, P/U, preamp? etc...

By the way, I have still to try a 2009 and newer Fender American Standard Jazz Fretless, as it is not stocked by ANY dealer in the southern half of Sweden (where the majority of our 9 million people live) and there is a four MONTH wait to get one if you order it blindly, noin-returnable. That is Fender Scandinavia...

 

[Jazz Ad]

Big (as in lots of bottom), balanced, lots of "mwah", long sustain, as little dead spot problems as possible. I do not like a too nasal "Jaco" bass sound and happily sacrifice a bit of "clarity" and "bite" to get warm, supportive lows and rich/compex mids. A slightly "compressed" tone (as in not so percussive transients) would be OK.

A Cort A4 would fit this description just fine, as well as a Steinberger.
Stay away from JB models and favor dual humbuckers.

 

[kbuschmann]

Still looking for (and have not found) the "right" fretless bass for me....

Contact Tom Clement ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed]). He will build a superior quality fretless instrument to your specifications at a price well within your stated limit. If you need advice to help determine what specifications (woods, electronics,etc) are required to match your desired outcomes (tonality, ergonomics,etc), he will lead you through the process.
Warning: If you buy one of his basses, it is unlikely to be the last - their quality, value and aesthetic appeal are quite addictive. I speak from experience.

 

[Freddels]

A fretless EBMM Sterling bass.

 

[AlexanderB]

Great replies!

Jazz Ad, is there a specific reason to stay away from single coils? I currently have a fretless with switchable dual single coils (front/humbucker/rear in each P/U) and I prefer the sound of the singlecoil setting. Maybe it seems contradictory to my preference for a bassier sound, but I think these humbuckers sound a bit too gritty/grainy.

No Clement (or any other one-of) bass. I will not order a bass that I can not test before I buy it. I am sure he builds great basses but I have made up my mind on this one...

Freddels, I have very little MM experience. Why, would you say, is it better than other "off the mill" basses? They are certainly not cheap in Sweden...

 

[onosson]

I'll second the vote for MusicMan. I have a fretless Sub5 which I have strung with a high C. Although the Sub series were a cheaper line, the neck is absolutely gorgeous to play, and the pickup and (passive) eq are voiced perfectly for fretless IMO. I prefer the tone for fretless over a Fender, even though I'm normally a Fender guy.

 

[Tommygunn]

A fretless EBMM Sterling bass.

I own one. Its perfect for the job. Piezo sounds amazing. I believe we got mine (it was a gift) for $700-800, used. I love it to bits.

Just for kicks:

 

[Freddels]

Freddels, I have very little MM experience. Why, would you say, is it better than other "off the mill" basses? They are certainly not cheap in Sweden...

There are actually several basses that I'd recommend (EBMM Sterling, G&L L2K, Carvin SBx000) as they are all consistently made. Sure, one piece of wood may sound a little different than another but you can usually pick up one of these and be confident that it'll be a very nicely made instrument. The Sterling would be a good choice as it's very low mid presence (which sounds great with fretless). I have an L2000 fretless that is just great. My Sterling is fretted but I'm sure a fretless version would be wonderful. Not sure you'll be able to try out all the suggestions that you've received before purchasing since you're in Sweden. Purchasing a used on from the US and making a deal to have it shipped to you would probably be the least expensive way to go. Choosing a brand that is known for making consistently good instruments is most likely your best chance of getting what you want.

 

[KwinS]

I absolutely love my Tony Franklins, but I think that the Ibanez GWB35 would do what you are wanting. It does have 5 strings, though...

 

[jfh2424]

Re: dead spots, most Fender style, 34 inch basses will have dead spots at the usual places. While setup will help it, it is a part of the deal.

If you want big bottom fretless sound, I suggest an L2000 fretless. The neck pickup will give you that. Plus, you still get a reasonable nasal sound from the bridge pickup.

I love mine, and it's been several years.

John

 

[cellkirk74]

What I like, tone wise:
Big (as in lots of bottom), balanced, lots of "mwah", long sustain, as little dead spot problems as possible. I do not like a too nasal "Jaco" bass sound and happily sacrifice a bit of "clarity" and "bite" to get warm, supportive lows and rich/compex mids. A slightly "compressed" tone (as in not so percussive transients) would be OK. For reference, I really like the sound of my EMG loaded Jazz Plus V, although that tone would maybe not work for fretless?

I do get exactly that from my fretless EBMM Bongo 4 Hp. I found it used on the EB-Forums:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[AlexanderB]

Thanks for all suggestions!
Second hand market for basses sucks in Sweden:

FYI information, "Blocket.se" (the dominating, wide spread and number one Swedish version of "Craig list") currently lists 621827 items (including cars) for sale. Out of these, about 10400 are listed as musical instruments.

Out of these, there are 14 (yes fourteen!) used fretless basses.
In the whole country. And some of these basses are 800 miles from where I live.

There is one used Sting Ray not too far and I might give it a shot.
Used G&L fretless? Well that would be the day...

Ebay in Sweden (Tradera.se) has no fretless bass at all, as usual.

 

[Limo]

I have a japanese Fender Jaco model (wich is ironic cause I don'treally like his tone either) but I've gotten a great tone by setting the action really low, for the mwaaaaa, rolling off the tone button and using the bridge pickup exclusively. You will get a warm but a bit nasal and tight sound. Mess around with your amp and you're in bass heaven

 

[Limo]

Thanks for all suggestions!
Second hand market for basses sucks in Sweden:

FYI information, "Blocket.se" (the dominating, wide spread and number one Swedish version of "Craig list") currently lists 621827 items (including cars) for sale. Out of these, about 10400 are listed as musical instruments.

Out of these, there are 14 (yes fourteen!) used fretless basses.
In the whole country. And some of these basses are 800 miles from where I live.

There is one used Sting Ray not too far and I might give it a shot.
Used G&L fretless? Well that would be the day...

Ebay in Sweden (Tradera.se) has no fretless bass at all, as usual.

23 träffar i kategorin El-bas Herre Gud!!

This is not even that bad here in Iceland

 

[Matthijs]

Big (as in lots of bottom), balanced, lots of "mwah", long sustain, as little dead spot problems as possible....

Sounds like you need to try a neck through or a headless design. Maybe a neck through warwick thumb?

IME the mwah thing is for a large part also a string and fingers thing. I wouldn't focus to much on that while auditioning basses. I think you can get mwah on most decent basses, as long as they don't have a very extreme soundprint.

How experienced are you playing fretless? You problem with those dead spots might also be a technique problem.

 

[CinneaghBass]

Can you travel to another part of the world that would have a store with better selection to try stuff out?

 

[Jools4001]

No Clement (or any other one-of) bass. I will not order a bass that I can not test before I buy it. I am sure he builds great basses but I have made up my mind on this one...

And yet....

At this point I am considering order Warmoth parts and assemble it myself. The question still remains WHAT to order - body and neck wood, P/U, preamp? etc...

How is ordering Warmoth parts any different to buying a custom bass? It's still a considerable gamble whether any Warmoth parts you order, and self assemble, will fulfil your needs, and if they don't, what then?

Another option, in the absence of anybody stocking fretless basses near you, might be to try out some fretted basses until you find one that has the tonal characteristics that you're looking for in a fretless and an absence of dead spots.

If you find one you like it's not a difficult job for a luthier to pull the frets, fill the fret slots with contrasting veneer and level the fingerboard...bingo, a lined fretless. You could even think about having the fingerboard epoxy coated at the same time to make it a bit more durable.

 

[tjclem]

"Another option, in the absence of anybody stocking fretless basses near you, might be to try out some fretted basses until you find one that has the tonal characteristics that you're looking for in a fretless and an absence of dead spots.

If you find one you like it's not a difficult job for a luthier to pull the frets, fill the fret slots with contrasting veneer and level the fingerboard...bingo, a lined fretless. You could even think about having the fingerboard epoxy coated at the same time to make it a bit more durable."

Good thinking...

 

[AlexanderB]

Thanks for the replies!

I have considered the Japanese Jaco but it is quite expensive here, has not been on display in any shop and I have never seen a used one for sale. It seems they also have the same dead spots that you generally find in Fenders without Posiflex rods?
(The two fretted Posiflex Fenders I have seen here were much better than the old ones in terms of tone and dead spots.)

Neck through or headless - sure, as soon as I find one to try... Fivers are also not out of the qustion, just not my first choise.

"Mwah" is of course related to technique and setup, but there are basses that are you really have to work on to get even a bit of it while others are very responsive. (See first post.)
I have been playing fretless a couple of years and my intonation is good enough for me to play couple of songs ("Black Velvet" for instance) in the setlist on my fretless.
The dead spots I see are construction related.


I have visited MI stores in Denmark a couple of times (I live not too far from their capitol Copenhagen). Selection at aage.dek is not much different than in swedish shops. They have more of the expensive basses like Sandberg and MusicMan. Currently they have two fretless basses on stock;
Squier VM, 2699DK and the Jaco one, 14899 DK. (See post one...)

Why trust Warmoth? That is a good question!
They seem to have a very good and consistent quality, people report that their necks are MUCH less plagued by dead spots that regular Fenders, the shape is well known to me and it would hold its value better than some expensive (unheard of in Sweden) luthier bass. I often see Warmoth in instrument ads here.
Defretting a good fretted one is rather expensive here. I'd say it will be at least $400 without any epoxi and I am not skilled enoght to predict what it will sound like once the frets are pulled out. It could be the last resort, I guess.

Any comments on the Ibanez GWB35? It sounds kind of buzzy, not very rich in the videos I have seen?

 

[Jools4001]

Why trust Warmoth? That is a good question!

Yeah, my point was not whether you would trust Warmoth. From everything I've seen they're a reputable company with a great product line, and people seem to like what they do (with the possible exception of the steel reinforced necks being heavy - although I think they now do carbonfibre reinforced necks).

My point was rather that you can only choose the components that you "think" might work for you based upon what other people have said, and since my version of "a warm, dark sound" is probably totally different to the "warm, dark sound" that's in your head, this method of choosing component parts is totally subjective.

Once you've chosen the components that you think you may need, there are all sorts of other variables in assembling them into a bass that may have an effect on the eventual sound. This will be true especially if you choose to assemble it yourself because the accuracy and craftsmanship with which you put it together will definitely affect tone and playability.

Even assuming that you select perfect components and put it together perfectly, you have no way of knowing what it will sound like until the day comes to plug it in - so in my view buying a whole heap of component parts that you have never tried has even more uncertainty than buying a completed bass that you've never tried.

Have you tried Thomann? They ship all over Europe and have a 30 day return policy if you don't like the instrument.

I don't know what budget you have, but don't write off the Squier or the less expensive Warwicks - they may not be what you want for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with the actual bass...my fretless sounds disgusting at the moment, but that's only because it's badly overdue new strings, I know that when I get my hand in my pocket and get some fresh Elixirs on there, she will sing again