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Double Bass Looking for best possible live sound with my upright

A

Alex Jenkins

Jan 22, 2008
83
0
New York, New York
www.myspace.com
#1
Hey guys,

I don't post much in the mic and pickup forum - but I need some advice for my live upright setup.

Currently I have a 2004 7/8 Pollmann upright strung up with Belcantos and I just purchased a Phil Jones Suitcase combo amp (not only for use with my upright). What I am looking for is the best reproduction of my bass' natural acoustic sound. I have looked through a lot of threads today looking for what would work best with my setup but I'm still a little confused on what I should be looking for.

Ideally, I would prefer not to have a permanent pickup installed on my bass. I play a lot of classical bass and I don't care too much to have a pickup on my bass. I was looking at the AMT Sp25B for a while but kept reading about all the problems people were having. I thought maybe hooking up an Electrovoice RE20 and sending that through my rig (I would probably need an impedance adapter, right?) but not sure how well that would work out. I also thought about the new SoundClip pickup from David Gage and thought maybe I could run that through a fishman preamp of some sort?

My main gig is with a mainly acoustic folk rock band where the bass is rather prominent. My Pollmann has a gorgeous deep, dark, round sound to it that I want to replicate at a louder level while still maintaining definition and not sounding boomy.

I'm kind of on a rant here, but if anyone understands what I'm looking for or could provide any sort of idea or solution, it would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if this type of thing has been posted before and I missed it.

Thanks,
Alex

ps - If it helps, I could post a clip from my band's EP of how I want my bass to sound live.
 
#2
Just for the benefit of any who would chime in, it might help us to know how much bowing you plan on doing while amplified through this pick-up. Some pick-ups that are wonderful overall may have their downfall in arco ugliness.

I find the revolution solo II pick-up to work quite amazingly with reproducing a very close-to-acoustic sound. I don't know how non-invasive a pick-up you are going for, but installing an uninstalling it only requires removal of the G-string--even then, you don't have to attach it to the G-string, or anything, at all! The bridge wing it fits in holds it snug anyway.
 
#4
Alex Jenkins said:
Hi Daniel,

I will be doing little to no arco playing with this group.

Thanks for the quick response. I'll be sure to check out the Revolution Solo II. Any other suggestions?
Click to expand...

Alex,
If you already have an adjustable bridge then the Fishman Full Circle simply replaces one of your adjusters. There is an ongoing debate on whether the Fishman affects the tone quality discernibly, it does in fact weigh a little more than a standard adjuster, but it's a great sounding transducer. Once it's mounted, it's pretty trouble free. The Realist slips under the E foot of the bridge and while it's placed between the bridge and top it's effect on tone quality seems minimal IME.
I'm not a big fan of bridge wing pickups, as they are IMHO difficult to fit, require a luthier to position the pickup, and carve or shim the bridge. Time, humidity and wear affect the fit and sometimes they can move slightly, but just enough to affect the tone quality.
Others may disagree with this and that's fine. It's just been my experience that the Realist and Fishman Full Circle sound better on my instruments and stay mounted on the instrument.
The Schertler DYN B and the Vektor are both easily removable, but cost more. You will find TBers that swear by either of those pickups as well.

Ric
 
#5
Ric Vice said:
I'm not a big fan of bridge wing pickups, as they are IMHO difficult to fit, require a luthier to position the pickup, and carve or shim the bridge. Time, humidity and wear affect the fit and sometimes they can move slightly, but just enough to affect the tone quality.
Others may disagree with this and that's fine.
Click to expand...
Hey Ric. Actually IMO you can fit the Rev Solo by yourself. All it takes is a little sandpaper and a lot of patience. I've been happy with mine (for a pickup) for years. I traced the outline in pencil on mine of where it sits in the wing slot, so if it moves, I just put it right back in the same spot.

Alex, welcome to the journey. There is lots and lots of great info on amplifying your DB in this forum. Sounds like you've already started digging in.

Are you going to use PA and monitors, an amp, or both?

I enjoyed listening to The Whiskey Collection.
 
#7
bolo said:
Are you going to use PA and monitors, an amp, or both?

I enjoyed listening to The Whiskey Collection.
Click to expand...

Not sure, I guess it would depend on the venue. I play electric bass in the band as well and I would have my PJB suitcase there with me anyway. The PJB sounds so good with my electric, maybe I should just go the pickup route and hope for the best with my upright. Would you guys advise getting a preamp or does it matter? I'm not all that sure what that would actually do for me but it sounds like it might be a good idea haha. Any advice?

I guess my main thing is is that I've finally gotten to the point where I'm 100% happy with my electric, my amp, and my upright. I feel like the last piece of the puzzle is finding a great live upright sound. These responses have definitely put me on the right direction - any other advice would be greatly appreciated though.

Bolo - glad you enjoyed the tunes. We just recorded our first EP the other day. Once we get the mando/violin tracks done and the CD is mastered, I'll send you some clips.

-Alex
 
#8
bolo said:
Hey Ric. Actually IMO you can fit the Rev Solo by yourself. All it takes is a little sandpaper and a lot of patience. I've been happy with mine (for a pickup) for years. I traced the outline in pencil on mine of where it sits in the wing slot, so if it moves, I just put it right back in the same spot.
Click to expand...


Steve,
Well, you have to understand that you're talking to a guy who tried to replace violin bridges for his students in elementary school and got the feet so screwed up that they would shoot out across the room during the spring suzuki concerts. This gives a whole new meaning to "Song Of The Wind". More like "Song of the Winged".
Actually I had a very respectable luthier fit mine ( A Rev Solo I) and it just hummed like crazy. I contacted Upton about a replacement, but it didn't work out, so it's sittin' in the basement gathering dust. My Realist just sounded infinitely better on my bass, into the Walter Woods and the EA VL cabinet's. I know that you and other's on TB get a great sound from yours, just didn't work out for me.

Ric
 
#9
Alex Jenkins said:
Not sure, I guess it would depend on the venue. I play electric bass in the band as well and I would have my PJB suitcase there with me anyway. The PJB sounds so good with my electric, maybe I should just go the pickup route and hope for the best with my upright. Would you guys advise getting a preamp or does it matter? I'm not all that sure what that would actually do for me but it sounds like it might be a good idea haha. Any advice?

I guess my main thing is is that I've finally gotten to the point where I'm 100% happy with my electric, my amp, and my upright. I feel like the last piece of the puzzle is finding a great live upright sound. These responses have definitely put me on the right direction - any other advice would be greatly appreciated though.

Bolo - glad you enjoyed the tunes. We just recorded our first EP the other day. Once we get the mando/violin tracks done and the CD is mastered, I'll send you some clips.

-Alex
Click to expand...

The Fishman Full Circle is about as natural as it gets when it comes to a pickup. Will it sound like a mic? Not quite, but you don't generally need a preamp with it, and its plug and play. I have got a great sound with it on every bass I have had it on.
 
#10
I play folk/old time and use the Full Circle plugged into a L.R. Baggs Para-acoustic active DI. I am very pleased with the tone and actually get a reasonably friendly arco sound out of it as well.

Before that I was using the Solo, and it does sound pretty good as well, but it produces some odd noises and artifacts that were annoying to me. It also had a tendency to get "over-excited" if I pulled too hard. That made for some very unpleasant sounds.
 
#11
Alex,

If I can say anything with any degree of certainty in regards to amplifying a double bass it is that just like strings certain pickups work on one bass and not another. There is a formula between the bass, strings, pickup and amp, any time you change one part of the formula it is difficult to predict the results.

Start by trying the ones that require no modification to your instrument (bridge) and see if you can find something that works. The new Gage pickup looks interesting.

As long as you use a pickup only the PJB should need no outboard preamp.
 
#12
All good advice in all the previous posts. And all true.

I guess I keep coming back to two things. You said you'd prefer not to have a permanent pickup installed. And you have what sounds like a very, very nice bass.

When you have a PA, I would mic the Pollmann. Your band has a nice acoustic vibe.

For pickups, you may have to just start trying them on your bass, with your amp(s), etc.

I did not mention the Invalid Link Removed. Less than $200. I've written about it in other threads. Definitely not a permanent install.

Maybe keep searching this forum like you have been too, and eventually some things will probably jump out or show up often enough that you'll get an indication of which one you want to try first.
 
#14
IME, the Fishman Full Circle is the one I see most commonly and seems to work with a wide variety. The only reason I am not endorsing it is because I have never had one on my bass. I too have had a bad experience with a Rev Solo pickup when I tried putting it on another bass that did not have an adequately wide wing space. I had to sliver the pick-up way down to below best levels and it ended up sounding not as ideal as my setup. However, for my set-up, I didn't have to alter my bass at all because of the wide space in the bridge wing. Some have talked about problems with the pickup staying put, but this is more of an issue of making sure to sand paper correctly so there is the right angle for the pick-up to catch. Anyway. I really agree with Peterpamlieri about every bass has its own best pick-up.
 

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