Looking for input on what to practice

[ianw]

Greetings all,

As I may have mentioned before, I have been playing guitar for 35 years, took up bass about 10 years ago, but never really learned to play or think like a bassist rather than as a guitarist.

Having invested quite a lot of time and effort in learning musical theory and improvisational skills for the guitar a couple of years ago, I realised that all of the theory and much of the fingerwork is transferable to bass and that there is a whole new musical world out there to discover and, ahem, conquer. And I'm loving it!

Anyway, I dusted off my copy of Joel di Bartolo's Serious Electric Bass, having first taught myself to understand basic bass clef notation so that I can follow the exercises. I am working my way through this at the moment but have a nagging feeling that I am not investing my time very wisely, and would love to hear other people’s opinion.

Much of Serious Electric Bass deals with modes, something that I got to grips with on guitar, but never really managed to use in my improvisations. I have zero interest in jazz and am wondering how important modes really are in the rock, pop, funk, blues and soul that I enjoy playing. OK, you need modes to be able to play like James Jamerson but at the same time I'm a little worried that immersing myself in all this technical stuff without reaping any noticeable benefits will make practising a chore rather than a pleasure.

The impression I get from reading forums here is that, outside a jazz context, a knowledge of chord tones and arpeggios is more important than modal thinking, and that finding a sweet Dorian or Mixolydian note is the icing on the cake rather than the cake itself.

So, rather than spending my practice time on needlessly technical pursuits, I am wondering if I would not be better off practising the major and minor scales and arpeggios in all positions on the neck (already familiar from guitar) and learning how to move effortlessly between them. Once I have all this under my fingers, it will be time enough to look at modes again and see if they can help me improve my playing even further. Or am I missing something?

I am also toying with the idea of analysing bass parts in songs by ear. For example, starting off with something simple but melodic like REM, I would write out the chords, figure out by ear what the bassist is playing and how this relates to the chord in question. And then learn how to play it and perhaps even change it about to make it more me ...

So right now, I am trying to come up with some sort of workable practice plan that will improve my playing by allowing me to focus on the most important things for me right now. If anyone has any comments or advice, I'd love to hear them!

All the best from wintry Cologne,

Ian

 

[FatStringer52]

a knowledge of chord tones and arpeggios is more important

I am wondering if I would not be better off practising the major and minor scales and arpeggios in all positions on the neck (already familiar from guitar) and learning how to move effortlessly between them

I think you are on the right track here. IMHO, I would focus more time on arpeggios (chord tones) and their inversions.

 

[Ekajimmy]

I think you are on the right track here. IMHO, I would focus more time on arpeggios (chord tones) and their inversions.

+1
Link Removed

 

[Mushroo]

So, rather than spending my practice time on needlessly technical pursuits, I am wondering if I would not be better off practising the major and minor scales and arpeggios in all positions on the neck (already familiar from guitar) and learning how to move effortlessly between them. Once I have all this under my fingers, it will be time enough to look at modes again and see if they can help me improve my playing even further. Or am I missing something?

If you've been a musician for 35+ years then my advice is to stop practicing scales and modes. Seriously.

Especially if you haven't mastered this skill yet:

I am also toying with the idea of analysing bass parts in songs by ear. For example, starting off with something simple but melodic like REM, I would write out the chords, figure out by ear what the bassist is playing and how this relates to the chord in question.

Stop toying with the idea, grab a pencil and paper, and get to work!

 

[Malcolm35]

Yep time for songs and how to play with people. Follow the chords and build your bass line from that. All your old guitar sheet music will now flow right into your bass.

Modes are for melodies, we play harmony and rhythm... yes modes are fun for messing around, but, we get paid to play harmony and provide the rhythm.

 

[ianw]

OK, thanks guys.

 

[SteveCS]

Greetings all,

As I may have mentioned before, I have been playing guitar for 35 years, took up bass about 10 years ago, but never really learned to play or think like a bassist rather than as a guitarist.

Having invested quite a lot of time and effort in learning musical theory and improvisational skills for the guitar a couple of years ago, I realised that all of the theory and much of the fingerwork is transferable to bass and that there is a whole new musical world out there to discover and, ahem, conquer. And I'm loving it!

Anyway, I dusted off my copy of Joel di Bartolo's Serious Electric Bass, having first taught myself to understand basic bass clef notation so that I can follow the exercises. I am working my way through this at the moment but have a nagging feeling that I am not investing my time very wisely, and would love to hear other people’s opinion.

Much of Serious Electric Bass deals with modes, something that I got to grips with on guitar, but never really managed to use in my improvisations. I have zero interest in jazz and am wondering how important modes really are in the rock, pop, funk, blues and soul that I enjoy playing. OK, you need modes to be able to play like James Jamerson but at the same time I'm a little worried that immersing myself in all this technical stuff without reaping any noticeable benefits will make practising a chore rather than a pleasure.

The impression I get from reading forums here is that, outside a jazz context, a knowledge of chord tones and arpeggios is more important than modal thinking, and that finding a sweet Dorian or Mixolydian note is the icing on the cake rather than the cake itself.

So, rather than spending my practice time on needlessly technical pursuits, I am wondering if I would not be better off practising the major and minor scales and arpeggios in all positions on the neck (already familiar from guitar) and learning how to move effortlessly between them. Once I have all this under my fingers, it will be time enough to look at modes again and see if they can help me improve my playing even further. Or am I missing something?

I am also toying with the idea of analysing bass parts in songs by ear. For example, starting off with something simple but melodic like REM, I would write out the chords, figure out by ear what the bassist is playing and how this relates to the chord in question. And then learn how to play it and perhaps even change it about to make it more me ...

So right now, I am trying to come up with some sort of workable practice plan that will improve my playing by allowing me to focus on the most important things for me right now. If anyone has any comments or advice, I'd love to hear them!

All the best from wintry Cologne,

Ian

I have a list of 3 things.

1. Your guitar and theory background will stand you in good stead. Remember the theory of chord inversions? As the keeper of the bottom notes, responsibility for ensuring they happen is now yours. So I would recommend refreshing yourself on how inversions work and why.

2. The bass strings are not guitar strings and they can be unruly. Getting notes out of ghem is easy. Getting good tone(s) is less so. Whatever right-hand techniques you adopt, be sure to work on getting the strings under control. Experiment with how different pressures, speeds, angles of attack, and positions along the string, in combination with various parts of your fingers/thumb, create different tones and dynamics.

3. Work on rhythm and timing. Investigate how different rhythmic figures are used to create feel in the bassline. Learn how slurred and detached notes, legato, and various degrees of staccato influence the feel of a bass part.

To close, try to understand and respect tbe immense power of the bass to change/influence the feel of the music, and where that power comes from. Some comes from note choice, for sure, but a lot more of it comes from dynamics, tone, timing and rhythm.

YMMV

 

[thabassmon]

With more than three and a half decade of musical experience I would recommend bass line analysis, time, repertoire and tone production.

Don't waste your time working on scales or arpeggios, modes are even more of a waste of time. It's good to learn them to know them, but don't get stuck there, very seldom will a tune need a bass player to play a locrian #2 descending from the tenth for example.
The physical positioning of the notes are exactly the same as the lowest four strings of guitar if you are going to play four string bass. So arpeggios and scales are in the same place too.

Find a tune you like, work out the line, pay attention to feel, rhythms, dynamics, note length. check out why it works in the context its in. Sometimes lines are just anchoring the harmony, sometimes emphasizing a particular rhythm, antiphony to melody, providing a countermelody etc, or a combination of elements.

Once you have the notes and rhythms down, really get inside the tune by focussing on feel, groove, dynamics and articulations.

 

[ianw]

OK, that's good advice - thanks, guys!

 

[Tottery]

Since you are already familiar with scales and arpeggios, I wouldn't waste too much of my time practicing them. Your knowledge of the fretboard is already established. If you want to start thinking like a bass player, I would start listening to bass players. Instead of listening to the singer or guitar, listen to the rhythm section for how they play together.

Also, if you have a way to record, you can record chord progressions on guitar and practice playing bass along with them. Obviously avoid mimicking the guitars strumming. Outside of that there isn't much to advise. Great tips have been given already.

 

[CallMeAl]

So much good advice above. I’ll add...

I look at my practice time in musical categories, such as:
-scales, modes, arpeggios
-bass technique (slap, pick, muting, etc)
-ear training (with piano)
-singing
-playing to recordings
-playing to metronome or drum machine
-reading standard notation....

So in a session, I’ll take whatever my goals are for that period (week or month) then make sure I hit all those categories in my session. 4 categories x 15 minutes = hour of practice.

 

[ianw]

Hey guys,

Thanks again for all your help. I spent the afternoon transcribing Mike Mills' bass part from REM's The One I Love and then compared it with a bass tab I found online. Didn't get all the nuances he played, but will add nuances of my own when I practise it in future.

And I'll be using Alan's practice time divisions as well. I'm lucky enough work from home with a bass guitar sitting invitingly on a stand behind my chair (next to five guitars, a keyboard and a ukulele), so picking it up a couple of times during the day for a few quick exercises during breaks is just the ticket. And I have EarMaster on my computer, which is excellent for ear training. As is the transcription process, of course.

So thanks again - I really appreciate you all taking the time to chip in!

 

[tshapiro]

A concept I think escapes most people is that the 7 modes (positions) of the major scale encompass all keys. In other words, you can use those same 7 positions for virtually all riffing and transitions - for every song - you just need to know the starting position. For example, if your in the common minor key (Aeolian) you know you are playing in the 6th position. The first position is 3 frets sharper. At this point, you are free to dance all over the neck. In addition, it's the notes that are next to each other that give each scale it's character so focus on them. In the second position (Dorian) that would be 2-3, 6-7. Dorian is one of the minor shapes, and it's just like Aeolian except it's got a major 6th. My point is to just drill these 7 shapes of the major scale and you can use them for every song. I do runs all over the place between chord changes simply using these 7 shapes - and only these 7 shapes - for everything.

If you haven't noticed the shapes all fit together so it's a bit less to memorize than it looks like at first.

Also, all the minor shapes have potential to be swapped out with each other as do all the major shapes. Just experiment.