Looking for multiuse 13" Ultrabook Laptop that works for digital audio

[pfschim]

I have just gone through a few frustrating weeks with 2 Dell XPS 13 laptops (9360 model).

Very nice machine with great specs (Quad Core i7 8550U, 16GB fast RAM, 512 M.2 SSD) and great format and feel, and they review exceptionally well.

BUT .. they appear to have an inherent issue with the Headphone In/Audio Out jack that causes extremely annoying pops and clicks when using the machine for audio playback thru external speakers, or even just web browsing (pops when you change tabs). Its a very specific pattern when starting up or starting an audio track ... pop POP pop. Almost sounds like some kind of power management subsystem is working overtime to power up and down. Crazy!

Dell was pretty good about it, sending me a replacement after I had the issue with the first one. But I was dismayed to find that the replacement had the same exact issue with noise/pops/clicks thru external speakers - so I am going to assume it's just native to the design.

I know its NOT a fault in my external amp/speaker setup because I have used the same rig with several other machines, including a recent Dell XPS 9350, without any issues at all.

I never even got around to setting up my DAW (Reaper) and my audio interface (Focusrite Scarlett 18i6).

So, now that these machines are on their way back to Dell, I am still needing a new laptop and am looking for advice.

I'm seeking a high end, ultrabook format (3lbs or less) machine for portability, and I'd like as clean an audio output as I can get.

Specs: Intel i7 8550 Quad Core, 16GB RAM, 512GB M.2 SSD with at least 1080P/HD screen. I don't care one way or the other about touchscreen.

Windows 10 is my preferred OS, but I am somewhat familiar with Mac OS.

Obviously a nicely spec'd Macbook Pro Retina 13 would be nice, and I have seen/read good things about the latest ASUS ZenBook 3 Deluxe machine.

Anyone else have hands on with a laptop in this range used for digital audio ?

your advice and experience is welcome.

thanks

 

[pfschim]

hmmm, so no one here has had any good experiences with ultrabook format machines that they would share ?
I am currently without a fully operational/personalized laptop and need to make a choice (other than Dell XPS 13 9360) this week. If any of you have a suggestion, please chime in.

on edit:
The ASUS Zenbook 3 Deluxe is starting to look like a good option. Has all the specs I 'm looking for, decent price (lower than Dell), a bit higher rated than Dell for (2 vs 3). Unless I hear another option (besides 2018 Macbook pro ), I think I'll probably go that route.

 

[RustyAxe]

If you're gonna record with it, you'll use a good audio interface, which will handle your inputs and outputs. There are small interfaces if portability is a concern. The built-in audio card wouldn't matter.

 

[pfschim]

If you're gonna record with it, you'll use a good audio interface, which will handle your inputs and outputs. There are small interfaces if portability is a concern. The built-in audio card wouldn't matter.

understood, but I use this machine for a variety of things related to gigging vs recording.
As a practice tool, I have a drum machine loaded to work on a variety of rhythm styles and tempo's
As a rehearsal tool I use it to listen to and learn tracks sent to me by bands I work with, sub gigs and recording session prep work.
And just as a personal machine, I use it to listen to my music library thru the external amp/speaker setup in my studio when I don't want to fire up the audio interface just to hear music.

so, for all those reasons, I just can't accept a machine that presents a constant set of noise when in use.

for recording I currently have a Focusrite Scarlett 18i6 USB 2 interface. I would like to move to a Thunderbolt interface like something in the Focusrite Claret range.

Any laptop recommendations to offer ?

I have just ordered an ASUS Zenbook 3 deluxe and I am hoping it has quiet audio output thru the std 3.5mm audio jack.

 

[DirkP]

I still agree with Rusty Axe. If you invest such money into a notebook, why don't you use a small interface for it? I'm on Macbooks since many years, but even before...
I don't remember the day I last used the internal audio of a notebook or pc. I even had Logitec speakers that had their own interface integrated and Adam speakers that offered the same.

I mean the U-22 from Zoom is < 50,- or the U-24 is < 100,-. There is one from Behringer that is < 40,-.
If you have an iPhone or iPad the U-24 and U-44 work great with them.
There are even smaller interfaces in the hifi-world that are mainly for listening, not for recording. Search for "usb dac"!
Just an example:
https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E10K-Headphone-Amplifier-Black/dp/B00LP3AMC2

I'm sure you wouldn't use the internal audio of a notebook to record music????
To me it would be out of proportion to make the decision for a notebook or the OS I use dependant from the quality of the internal audio. The internal audio of small flat notebooks is prone to all kinds of noise-issues.

 

[pfschim]

Thanks for the replies, but I think you guys are totally missing what I am saying/seeking.

I am NOT using the internal speakers on the laptop, I am using the 3.5mm stereo audio out/headphone in jack to send audio signal to an external amp/speaker setup (Cambridge Audio) that has worked great for me for years and was perfectly quiet on ALL of the prior systems until I ran into the unacceptably noisy output on the Dell XPS 13 9360. These audio outputs are generally driven by a Realtek chip & driver and provide perfectly decent output signal to feed an outboard system like mine.

I WILL be using a small USB 2.0 interface and Reaper for the basic digital recording that I want to do. I also want to move to a Thunderbolt interface once I get over the initial learning curve.

If you are saying that I should change my outboard gear and get something like the USB DAC from the link you provided, that's an entirely different approach than what has worked for me for years. I'm sure it would work, but I'm not sure why I need to do that just because laptop makers can't design the 3.5mm audio out circuit to be reasonably quiet and free of interference from other sub systems, even as they make the laptops smaller and smaller.

FWIW, I suspect, but cannot prove, that the issue with the Dell XPS 13 9360 audio noise is that, in order to get greater and greater battery life, the Intel Power Management drivers are turning switching the power to the Audio chip off and on with every request. OTOH, this would not explain why the system pops every time I change or add a new browser tab. By the way, I think the Dell XPS is a very nice ultraportable laptop. I've had a different one (9350) for a year and it was top notch and the quality of its 3.5mm audio output was just fine.

so, thanks for your thoughts, and I may look into a USB DAC, but that's not what I originally had in mind.

 

[DirkP]

I understood your post. The audio-quality of integrated chips has improved during the last decade, but still...
If I listen to music on my iPhone - I still have one with an audio out - I use the headphone output. I don't walk with an extra device for a bit of improvement in audio quality. But with notebooks? A no brainer for me!
Even the cheapest audio-interfaces and usb-dacs are better. As soon as the da-conversion happens within a small flat notebook with a small miniatur motherboard and integrated chips, it's hard to keep the noise floor low or make sure that there isn't a noise issue.

To make it short: there is a reason, that Apple decided to get rid of analog audio-ins and -outs on their smartphones. It's just too much of an effort to keep the audio clean on small devices packed with technology. And users, who are into quality audio, use interfaces and dacs anyway.

 

[pfschim]

I understood your post. The audio-quality of integrated chips has improved during the last decade, but still...
If I listen to music on my iPhone - I still have one with an audio out - I use the headphone output. I don't walk with an extra device for a bit of improvement in audio quality. But with notebooks? A no brainer for me!
Even the cheapest audio-interfaces and usb-dacs are better. As soon as the da-conversion happens within a small flat notebook with a small miniatur motherboard and integrated chips, it's hard to keep the noise floor low or make sure that there isn't a noise issue.

To make it short: there is a reason, that Apple decided to get rid of analog audio-ins and -outs on their smartphones. It's just too much of an effort to keep the audio clean on small devices packed with technology. And users, who are into quality audio, use interfaces and dacs anyway.

ok, I get your point. I was just looking at USB DAC's as you responded so thanks for that idea.
but, you did not really answer my original question about ultrabook laptops with clean internal audio output.

I do have somewhat limited space in my studio so adding another piece of outboard gear (even a small one) like a USB DAC is not the route I was considering. I'm sure I can probably get better and quieter conversion with an outboard unit, but it's an additional cost and my old outboard system has worked just fine for years.

keep in mind that just one generation back the Dell XPS 13 9350 had perfectly clean output via its 3.5mm jack and its case format is only minimally larger than the 9360/9370 models.

The key reason I changed platforms was to get the quad core i7 8550U CPU that powers the latest generation of these ultrabooks, and to have USB 3.1/Thunderbolt ports with full 4 lane PCIe for use with Thunderbolt audio interfaces as well as eGPU's.

anyway, thanks for the input. I am hoping that the ASUS Zenbook 3 works out better for me. And I will consider getting an outboard USB DAC.
any suggestions on a good one at a reasonable price ? The FiiO E10K you linked to seemed very basic and probably focused on headphone use. I am connecting to a powered 2.1 system.

 

[pfschim]

Just coming back to say that the internal audio output on the ASUS Zenbook 3 Deluxe is dead silent, so it's not impossible for manufacturers to get this right.
That being said, I have gone ahead and ordered an external USB DAC (Schiit Audio Modi 2 Uber - which reviewed very positively). So, I will try the external DAC too and see if it does a great deal for the sound quality.

thanks for the input