Power is very cheap and light these days, and EQ is easy.
Nothing I have read about the "super cabs" sounds like they don't deliver the lows.
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Nothing I have read about the "super cabs" sounds like they don't deliver the lows.
Right, power is cheap these days but, not every coloring can be EQ'd. Some OEM MI drivers provide a rich coloring at overload range which can't be EQ'd with any amplifier. For example it's impossible to emulate the voicing of a EVM 12L with EQ.
There is no doubt about it that "super cabs" provide more of low end than "coloring" average MI cabs.
In practice my 212 cab which is loaded with pretty superb 3" VC drivers needs about >1kW power to compete with Marshall stacks. Either way in every "similar" case I'd bring the fridge instead cause the 810 knocks off more beaf to lunch at same loudness level.
The term "Loud rock" may mean anything.
The OP might also swap his 410 for two Acme 210 cabs just to get the desired low end extension.
I have got no idea if his existing amp was then powerful enough to stay well in the mix of a loud rock band. I have got no idea how loud his band actually is playing at rehearsal and on stage.
Also I have got no idea if then he may want wish back the voicing of his existing cab.
As usual there is no free lunch but bundles of trade offs.
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I have a Barefaced 6x10 that rolls and only weighs 69 pounds. Expensive, but worth it.
9 times out of 10 - when I have to haul a cabinet and head around - I go with the 6X10 as well. I LOVE the tone from the SVT4Pro with the 6X10.....or, when I REALLY don't want to lug the road case with the 4Pro in it - I take the V4B - sounds GREAT as well....Hell, even when we had great FOH support, I still dug listening to the 6X10. It is a FINE cabinet!
I used my 2x12 cab (custom built) last weekend for the first time alone, normally I use it in combo with my (custom built) 2x10 cab. It's built with 2 Emience Definimax 12s and although I prefer the sound of both cabs run together the 2x12 alone pulled off the show and I had some nice compliments about my sound. It was a relatively small venue.
Classic and modern rock band. Ampeg preamps and QSC 3002 power amp.
Classic and modern rock band. Ampeg preamps and QSC 3002 power amp.
I copied the dimensions of the Aguilar 2x12 cab and retuned the ports slightly, I built it about 9 years ago and haven't got a clue about the dimensions or specs any more but you can google the Aguilar cab and find the specs. It belts out a lot more low end then the Aggie cabs. Sorry, I know that doesn't help much.
About two cubic feet per driver and probably tuned in the low 50's/high 40's. Most likey sacrifices max spl for low end extension. Great drivers, sure it sounds great.
Al Kraft
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When I want to rock hard with a 212, the Mesa PH 212 (or two of them) is my first choice. The Berg CN212 is excellent cab with a lot of volume if you want it, but almost feels too sophisticated/polite for hard rock. Two GK Neo 112 II's are pretty impressive and have a an edgy rock voice as well.
+1
I use two MB 2x10's (102 HF) stacked vertically, on a little platform thingy that takes it a couple of inches off the stage with a MB 500 watt valve head.
I use this for all gigs, small, middle size and biggies. Small footprint and lovely tone. When one sustains a low note it just swells and hangs with this rig, smaller ones just fade away. Also I know just how to set up the rig at the gig without compromising.
Tried using just one cab at smaller gigs and just didn't cut it. It's not a loudness thing at all, this rig will go crazy loud, it's all about the tone.
+1 on vertical stacking two 210 cabinets.
I started doing the two 210 vertical thing roughfully 10 years ago.
With the vertical stacking's advantages over the standard configured 410 cabinet, my ears won't let me do it any other way now!
Just saw on another T.B. thread that Mesa (my fave head manufacturer) will soon be releasing a Subway 212 cabinet.
I'll be checking out their version of the 212 format when/if I ever run across one.
But, odds are, I'll be gigging with my vertical 410 for many years to come....
All things being equal, that's the cab I would have gone with for loud metal. Just a bit over my self-lift weight goals these days though. The related lineage Powerhouse 212 is an all time cabinet for metal.
Sascha Erni
Making things go whoomp, whoomp since 1994
In my secondary band, I play Metal covers (Black Sabbath to Metallica to Wasp) with a guitar player who loves his 100 W Marshall tube rig and 4x12 cab, and keep up just fine with a stack of two Orange 112 neo cabs and a 500 W Terror Bass head. But: the drummer knows how to play with restraint, and the guitar player has in-ears and mics his cab rather than blasting all over the stage. So, in short: it depends on your band mates whether 212 is enough, or not.
(An update about my post from 2017.)
Roughfully 3-1/2 weeks ago I parked my vertical 410 and have started gigging a Bergantino CN212.
(A cab that's been mentioned in this thread many times.)
HUGELY impressed with the CN212 as a stand-alone cab in the 5 pcs., moderately loud, country/rock band I'm with.
Ran a 212 with a loud two guitar hard rock band for about 3-4 years. Had a second 212 cab but only brought it to a handful of gigs. Second cab was serious overkill on all but a no PA support outdoor gig.
So yeah, from my exp a single 212 has no problems handling rehearsals and stage monitor duties on PA support indoor gigs.
So yeah, from my exp a single 212 has no problems handling rehearsals and stage monitor duties on PA support indoor gigs.
Agreed on all fronts.
Except, depending on the maker (Greenboy, Barefaced, LDS, etc), the 212 will actually be significantly louder than a commercial 410.
I don't have any experience with the CN212, but the LDS 15/6 I use absolutely buries any 410 I've ever owned or played through, including Aguilar, Ampeg, GK, Avatar, Mesa, Hartke, Carvin...I think that's it
Jim at Bergantino makes great stuff, unless the band is stupid loud or you're trying to carry a large room without PA support I'd imagine it'd work great.
What is the LDS 15/6 ?
