Low F# String and a HPF @ 50Hz?

[Matthew_84]

For some of the music I want to work on, I'm thinking of getting a 6 string fretless tuned F#-B-E-A-D-G.

My cab is not rated for frequencies below 50Hz, and I also set the HPF on my power amp at 50Hz. My experience with this is that it tightens up the tone, which I like a lot. When I've played B strings through this setup, it sounded great - nice and tight...

Now, I realize the B string frequency is 30.87Hz, so while I block the fundamental out, I'll get the second harmonic which still sounds deep and powerful. However, a low F# is 23.12Hz, which means that I will not get the second harmonic. The lowest note I can play that would give still give me the second harmonic is a low G# at 25.95Hz.

Would there be a significant difference in tone and volume between the low G# and the low F#?

For what it's worth, I love my current amp/cab setup and I'd rarely use the F#, so I'm not looking to upgrade the amp/cab to get the second harmonic (or the fundamental for that matter)... I'm just curious how this would sound with my current setup.

Thanks!

 

[kbr]

You should be fine. In the fairly typical amp high pass filter, you're already 3db down at your 50hz knee frequency. Unless the amp has a seriously high order filter (unlikely); you'll be fine on the F#. It will be a bit thinner, but that's sometimes a good thing with strings tuned really low. A lot of times my F# string would be darker than the other strings on typical basses. My Dingwalls are the only basses I haven't had that issue with. I mostly stay to Low B because of the uneveness.

Also, when I do FOH, I will HPF the bass as high as 100Hz depending on conditions. Sometimes it's what the room and the bass need to sound good together. Experiment! You can always turn off the filter.

 

[Matthew_84]

You should be fine. In the fairly typical amp high pass filter, you're already 3db down at your 50hz knee frequency. Unless the amp has a seriously high order filter (unlikely); you'll be fine on the F#. It will be a bit thinner, but that's sometimes a good thing with strings tuned really low. A lot of times my F# string would be darker than the other strings on typical basses. My Dingwalls are the only basses I haven't had that issue with. I mostly stay to Low B because of the uneveness.

Also, when I do FOH, I will HPF the bass as high as 100Hz depending on conditions. Sometimes it's what the room and the bass need to sound good together. Experiment! You can always turn off the filter.

Thank you! What gauge and type of F# string do you use on your non-Dingwall basses?... Right now I'm ruling out Dingwalls or other multi-scale basses due to this being a fretless.

Also, do you notice a loss in volume between the low G# and low F#?

I was actually in the process of typing out a reply... After doing some research on the ""Missing Fundamental" phenomenon, I stumbled on a site where they removed the first three harmonics (fundamental and two overtones) from a melodic phrase (Invalid Link Removed), and yes, while it certainly sounded thinner, there was also an extra harmonic missing than what I was proposing to remove. Their examples (made out of multiple sine waves, with a not very low pitched fundamental to begin with) sounded pretty bad, but I think the "thinness" on the low F# and G would help (as you said). Also, I wonder if all of their sine waves were the same volume. Typically, the even harmonics (2nd, 4th, 6th, etc), are a bit louder than the odd harmonics (fundamental, 3rd, 5th, etc), but the volume starters to taper off after the first few harmonics... If they didn't do that, that could explain the distortion on the third clip.

 

[seamonkey]

A DI can easily handle low F#
The harmonics alignment lets the brain hear a missing fundamental. Get some nice thick harmonic rich strings you can always adjust the EQ down. Much harder to turn up harmonics that aren't there in the first place.
Waves MaxxBass and Resonance bass can align and turn up the harmonics for enhancing the missing fundamental effect.

 

[kbr]

I maxed out at .150 because of my bridge. I think I could have gone a little heavier. I'm mostly just tuned in standard (BEADGC) now. Also, there are multi scale fretless basses out there. They scare me!

I didn't experience any loss of volume on the lower notes. The timbre of the open string compared to the fretted notes was slightly different. The open sound was a bit more "open" for lack of a better word.

I took a listen to that link. I think the pure tones show the extreme of that type of filtering. I might make my own high passed clips of a bass this weekend. Now I'm curious.

 

[Matthew_84]

Waves MaxxBass and Resonance bass can align and turn up the harmonics for enhancing the missing fundamental effect.

Thanks! I'll look into these. I assume they're plug-ins?

I maxed out at .150 because of my bridge. I think I could have gone a little heavier. I'm mostly just tuned in standard (BEADGC) now. Also, there are multi scale fretless basses out there. They scare me!

I didn't experience any loss of volume on the lower notes. The timbre of the open string compared to the fretted notes was slightly different. The open sound was a bit more "open" for lack of a better word.

I took a listen to that link. I think the pure tones show the extreme of that type of filtering. I might make my own high passed clips of a bass this weekend. Now I'm curious.

I would love to hear some clips on a bass, if you feel so keen... But please don't do it only for me.

I've seen multi-scale fretless, and yeah, they scare me too, lol. It just seems like crossing strings while hitting the note in tune from the get-go would be next to impossible.

Also, if you miss the F#, you may want to try a slightly thicker string, or at least a string with more tension. Typically, higher tension or thicker strings, seem to have a bit more overtone/harmonic content than looser strings... Well, that's my opinion anyway.

 

[kbr]

I made some clips of both a Low B and even lower Low F#. The filter I used (bx_Digital V2) is very good at being transparent so I went all the way to 100Hz on the last one of each. My Low B string wasn't heavy enough to sound great at F# but it should work for this test. The filter changing the character of the note is what's important, not the usability of a .125 string at Low F#. The Playlist will play through the different filter settings for each.

 

[Matthew_84]

I made some clips of both a Low B and even lower Low F#. The filter I used (bx_Digital V2) is very good at being transparent so I went all the way to 100Hz on the last one of each. My Low B string wasn't heavy enough to sound great at F# but it should work for this test. The filter changing the character of the note is what's important, not the usability of a .125 string at Low F#. The Playlist will play through the different filter settings for each.

Wow, that's great! I really appreciate you doing this for me!

I expected to hear a pretty big difference between the "unprocessed" recording and the "50Hz" recording, but I couldn't hear much of one, maybe a slight less rumble in the 50Hz, but it was hard to tell through my headphones... I definitely noticed less rumble in the "100Hz" recording, but it still sounded good!

* And by "rumble", I mean the lower bass frequencies, not the string hitting the frets which was caused by the .125 F#.

Thanks for the clips, you've alleviated all of my doubts!