If money's no issue than the one I'd check out would be the Mutronics Mutator. That's what Massive Attack and Daft Punk use. Nasty. It's supposed to use the same Curtis filter chips that some of the classic analog synths utilised.
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LPF recommendations? (Moog or Electrix)
- Thread starter bigblondeafro87
- Start date
Heh, I didn't mean to give the impression that money WASN'T an issue. I was just using that comment to fish for current production products that can do similar things. I think Speak Onion was probably guessing correctly that it's similar a limited market for a fully MIDI controllable analog filter.
As far as the Filter Factory specifically. It does allow you to control ALL of the features via MIDI. However, nearly everything is controlled via CC. And your typical MIDI foot controller simply cannot simultaneously control multiple CC's effectively, if at all.
For example, I have a Behringer FCB1010. Tons of features for very little the money, and by getting the inexpensive UNO EPROM you can enable CC toggling and stomp box mode, both of which are great (necessary, even) features for adding to that specific board. However, the FCB1010 only provides you with two CC channels, plus the two expression pedals. So that's only FOUR CC controls per patch period. But wait, there's more! You have to PERMENANTLY assign each of the two CC controls, and two expression pedals to a specific MIDI CHANNEL. This means they're permanently assigned to a specific piece of gear, assuming you have all your gear on separate channels which is how I'd think most people would set their gear up (I'm a novice here).
So if you wanted to control both Filter Frequency with an expression sweep and be able to set Filter Resonance with an expression sweep you'd have to permanently assign both expressions on the FCB1010 to the MIDI Channel of the FilterFactory. Very easy to do, and gives you the functionality you want. However, you're now locked into using both expressions with the FilterFactory's MIDI Channel for all eternity and cannot use either expression with any other MIDI Channel with any of your patches. BAM! Same issue with the additional two CC channels, they don't provide variable CC control but are perfect for CC toggling on/off between two CC values. For example, I permanently assigned one of the additonal CC channels to the FilterFactory MIDI Channel.
So what I currently have is a stomp box assigned to use that CC to toggle the filter Factory Bypass on/off using MIDI CHANNEL 10 CC#17=0/127 and assigned that permenantly to one of the 5 stomp boxes so I can turn the FF on/off at will regardless of the patch. And then the expression can do the variable sweep. So I've got the same functionality as the Moog LPF on my FCB1010. Turn it on/off, sweep the frequency.
So I've opted to assign a single expression permanently to the FilterFactory, the other to my two BOSS VF-1 which both use the same MIDI Channel right now so I can use the expression with either of them by smartly managing the internal VF-1 assigns.
The FCB1010 also supports a single MIDI CHANNEL to send a NOTE ON command to. I haven't tried it, but you should be able to use this to send a specific MIDI NOTE per patch and that can be used to set a static FilterFactory frequency. No sweep, but fine for a static filter setting. Just noting that in case it pops something into your mind.
I haven't fully conceived and implemented a work around for providing a ton of CC control to the Filter Factory to free me to doing more than just typical filter sweeps. But I'm thinking on the FCB1010 specifically I could setup an entire bank (which provides 5 patches when using UNO Stomp Box mode) I could then smartly setup the 5 patches to be cycled through from left-to-right. Each patch would have to be smartly and correctly be able to send a single CC command on the first 4 patches, the 5th patch would disable the bypass and the expression would let me sweep the frequency. Something like this:
Patch 1: CC#1=60 (sets LFO depth)
Patch 2: CC#6=40 (sets resonance)
Patch 3: CC#11=0 (disables LFO singleshoot, which enables LFO)
Patch 4: CC#13=6 (sets LFO division to 1:4 for quarter notes)
Patch 5: CC#17=0 (turns bypass off)
So I'd be able to set a variety of LFO parameters, by blasting through 5 presets, and have the expression sweep the frequency. And I could have the FilterFactory stomp on that I normally use to always control the FilterFactory bypass when I was ready to turn the FilterFactory off in case I needed do to that mid-song or something.
But then when you're done with that song I'm assuming you'd need to go back through and reset the entire FilterFactory as it'd retain whatever settings you just set.
Bah, I dunno. I'm just thinking out loud on how to more fully control the FF with my FCB1010.
Overall, it'd be a lot easier if there was a floorboard unit that could send a couple dozen CC controls whenever you wanted. I stopped researching after finding the FCB1010 as it was expensive enough and could MOSTLY do what I wanted.
Anyway, this has been a really great thread. Lots of good info here.
As far as the Filter Factory specifically. It does allow you to control ALL of the features via MIDI. However, nearly everything is controlled via CC. And your typical MIDI foot controller simply cannot simultaneously control multiple CC's effectively, if at all.
For example, I have a Behringer FCB1010. Tons of features for very little the money, and by getting the inexpensive UNO EPROM you can enable CC toggling and stomp box mode, both of which are great (necessary, even) features for adding to that specific board. However, the FCB1010 only provides you with two CC channels, plus the two expression pedals. So that's only FOUR CC controls per patch period. But wait, there's more! You have to PERMENANTLY assign each of the two CC controls, and two expression pedals to a specific MIDI CHANNEL. This means they're permanently assigned to a specific piece of gear, assuming you have all your gear on separate channels which is how I'd think most people would set their gear up (I'm a novice here).
So if you wanted to control both Filter Frequency with an expression sweep and be able to set Filter Resonance with an expression sweep you'd have to permanently assign both expressions on the FCB1010 to the MIDI Channel of the FilterFactory. Very easy to do, and gives you the functionality you want. However, you're now locked into using both expressions with the FilterFactory's MIDI Channel for all eternity and cannot use either expression with any other MIDI Channel with any of your patches. BAM! Same issue with the additional two CC channels, they don't provide variable CC control but are perfect for CC toggling on/off between two CC values. For example, I permanently assigned one of the additonal CC channels to the FilterFactory MIDI Channel.
So what I currently have is a stomp box assigned to use that CC to toggle the filter Factory Bypass on/off using MIDI CHANNEL 10 CC#17=0/127 and assigned that permenantly to one of the 5 stomp boxes so I can turn the FF on/off at will regardless of the patch. And then the expression can do the variable sweep. So I've got the same functionality as the Moog LPF on my FCB1010. Turn it on/off, sweep the frequency.
So I've opted to assign a single expression permanently to the FilterFactory, the other to my two BOSS VF-1 which both use the same MIDI Channel right now so I can use the expression with either of them by smartly managing the internal VF-1 assigns.
The FCB1010 also supports a single MIDI CHANNEL to send a NOTE ON command to. I haven't tried it, but you should be able to use this to send a specific MIDI NOTE per patch and that can be used to set a static FilterFactory frequency. No sweep, but fine for a static filter setting. Just noting that in case it pops something into your mind.
I haven't fully conceived and implemented a work around for providing a ton of CC control to the Filter Factory to free me to doing more than just typical filter sweeps. But I'm thinking on the FCB1010 specifically I could setup an entire bank (which provides 5 patches when using UNO Stomp Box mode) I could then smartly setup the 5 patches to be cycled through from left-to-right. Each patch would have to be smartly and correctly be able to send a single CC command on the first 4 patches, the 5th patch would disable the bypass and the expression would let me sweep the frequency. Something like this:
Patch 1: CC#1=60 (sets LFO depth)
Patch 2: CC#6=40 (sets resonance)
Patch 3: CC#11=0 (disables LFO singleshoot, which enables LFO)
Patch 4: CC#13=6 (sets LFO division to 1:4 for quarter notes)
Patch 5: CC#17=0 (turns bypass off)
So I'd be able to set a variety of LFO parameters, by blasting through 5 presets, and have the expression sweep the frequency. And I could have the FilterFactory stomp on that I normally use to always control the FilterFactory bypass when I was ready to turn the FilterFactory off in case I needed do to that mid-song or something.
But then when you're done with that song I'm assuming you'd need to go back through and reset the entire FilterFactory as it'd retain whatever settings you just set.
Bah, I dunno. I'm just thinking out loud on how to more fully control the FF with my FCB1010.
Overall, it'd be a lot easier if there was a floorboard unit that could send a couple dozen CC controls whenever you wanted. I stopped researching after finding the FCB1010 as it was expensive enough and could MOSTLY do what I wanted.
Anyway, this has been a really great thread. Lots of good info here.
Played with the FilterFactory some more tonight and made the following discoveries.
* I've been underutilizing my FCB1010. Since I set it up for Stomp Box mode and assigned the 5th stomp to turn the FilterFactory on/off I actually freed up the other CC channel assigned to the FilterFactory to do whatever else I want. For example, toggle other features like FILTER TYPE. So I can set a single preset to actually toggle between two CC values, for example Filter Type = LOW PASS then stomp the same preset button and get Filter Type = HIGH PASS. Now I'm getting somewhere! I could do the same thing with Waveform, stomp the preset get Waveform=Envelope, stomp again get Waveform=Square. So now I can get really crazy. Only problem is there's no way to really keep it all straight without looking at the state of the FF box.
* Related, I tried out the HIGH PASS filter and it's totally useable if you want some more higher voiced synth type sounds. When you bottom out the filter frequency in high pass you still get some nice resonant lows.
* I've come to enjoy the 4 pole mode more than the 2 pole. When I first A-B'ed against the Moog I did think the FF 2 pole was a closer match, and it probably is. But the FF 4 pole is much more aggressive sounding, and produces more pronounced lows I think. Additionally, since 4 pole is mono and sums the left/right input you can use it to get an output boost from the FF assuming you can actually feed it a stereo L/R feed. Which I can via my BOSS VF-1 units I have before and after the FF. Still experimenting with 4 pole / 2 pole to see what's better, and if I can run 4 pole in mono effectively without mangling output volume (I think 4 pole with a mono input drops volume compared to 2 pole with mono input).
I've found the FF to be very interesting. It's so simple to use manually, and can produce some many different sounds.
I posted a quick clip of HIGH PASS on my clips page, even figured out how to add simple backing drums via Addictive Drums synced to my Reaper project BPM. Check my sig for the clip page link. I just need to figure out how to have Reaper output a MIDI clock signal out of my DAW back to my rack for BPM controlled rate effects including FF LFO.
* I've been underutilizing my FCB1010. Since I set it up for Stomp Box mode and assigned the 5th stomp to turn the FilterFactory on/off I actually freed up the other CC channel assigned to the FilterFactory to do whatever else I want. For example, toggle other features like FILTER TYPE. So I can set a single preset to actually toggle between two CC values, for example Filter Type = LOW PASS then stomp the same preset button and get Filter Type = HIGH PASS. Now I'm getting somewhere! I could do the same thing with Waveform, stomp the preset get Waveform=Envelope, stomp again get Waveform=Square. So now I can get really crazy. Only problem is there's no way to really keep it all straight without looking at the state of the FF box.
* Related, I tried out the HIGH PASS filter and it's totally useable if you want some more higher voiced synth type sounds. When you bottom out the filter frequency in high pass you still get some nice resonant lows.
* I've come to enjoy the 4 pole mode more than the 2 pole. When I first A-B'ed against the Moog I did think the FF 2 pole was a closer match, and it probably is. But the FF 4 pole is much more aggressive sounding, and produces more pronounced lows I think. Additionally, since 4 pole is mono and sums the left/right input you can use it to get an output boost from the FF assuming you can actually feed it a stereo L/R feed. Which I can via my BOSS VF-1 units I have before and after the FF. Still experimenting with 4 pole / 2 pole to see what's better, and if I can run 4 pole in mono effectively without mangling output volume (I think 4 pole with a mono input drops volume compared to 2 pole with mono input).
I've found the FF to be very interesting. It's so simple to use manually, and can produce some many different sounds.
I posted a quick clip of HIGH PASS on my clips page, even figured out how to add simple backing drums via Addictive Drums synced to my Reaper project BPM. Check my sig for the clip page link. I just need to figure out how to have Reaper output a MIDI clock signal out of my DAW back to my rack for BPM controlled rate effects including FF LFO.
The hardest part regarding all this filter sweep business is using the friggin' expression pedal well. 
I've never been that great at doing other things while playing and if you're looking to produce some interesting sweeps you really have to pay attention with your foot. I've found it does help a LOT if you constrict the sweep range on the physical expression pedal to the range you're likely to sweep audibly. Which is a pro for the FCB1010 and the FilterFactory as you can set the MIDI CC range per patch. 0-80 on the HP patches. 25-65 on most of the LP, sometimes a little higher if I want to hit more highs. It's everything that's GOOD about MIDI controlled devices in that regard.
In my dream world I'd have a synth guru pump the FilterFactory full of MIDI controlled data. It'd free my foot, and I'm quite certain it'd be able to generate a LOT more fun tones compared to me rocking an expression pedal back and forth. The FF accepts NOTE ON values to set Frequency so you could do instant stepped frequencies VS sweeps if you wanted. And a synth would be able to keep all the FF changes in perfect time to the beat where my foot fails to do that sometimes.
And turn on/off LFO, mod the divisions on the fly, and on and on. Tons more than a bass player can possibly do with his feet.
I've never been that great at doing other things while playing and if you're looking to produce some interesting sweeps you really have to pay attention with your foot. I've found it does help a LOT if you constrict the sweep range on the physical expression pedal to the range you're likely to sweep audibly. Which is a pro for the FCB1010 and the FilterFactory as you can set the MIDI CC range per patch. 0-80 on the HP patches. 25-65 on most of the LP, sometimes a little higher if I want to hit more highs. It's everything that's GOOD about MIDI controlled devices in that regard.In my dream world I'd have a synth guru pump the FilterFactory full of MIDI controlled data. It'd free my foot, and I'm quite certain it'd be able to generate a LOT more fun tones compared to me rocking an expression pedal back and forth. The FF accepts NOTE ON values to set Frequency so you could do instant stepped frequencies VS sweeps if you wanted. And a synth would be able to keep all the FF changes in perfect time to the beat where my foot fails to do that sometimes.
And turn on/off LFO, mod the divisions on the fly, and on and on. Tons more than a bass player can possibly do with his feet.Wow, you know a ton more about MIDI than I do haha. I see MIDI definitely has the most potential, especially for creating complex filter sweeps.
I just got an expression pedal to use with my Boss SYB-5 the other day, and the filters actually sound pretty damn good when swept manually. The waveforms also sound very legit, not cheesy at all. Anyway, I found the problem you (Gastric) were just talking about, it can be hard to create interesting filter sounds with your foot.
Like anything else, practice can help tons. Yesterday when I was practicing I decided to try to learn some songs that have the filter sweep sound in them. This free download has quite a bit of that sound, especially on the first album:
http://www.prettylightsmusic.com/
I just put on the album and starting trying to create rythymic ideas of my own and copied any sweeps I heard that really caught my attention. It helps to forget your foot is doing anything, just try to make a consistent sweep and really listen to your sound.
I just got an expression pedal to use with my Boss SYB-5 the other day, and the filters actually sound pretty damn good when swept manually. The waveforms also sound very legit, not cheesy at all. Anyway, I found the problem you (Gastric) were just talking about, it can be hard to create interesting filter sounds with your foot.
Like anything else, practice can help tons. Yesterday when I was practicing I decided to try to learn some songs that have the filter sweep sound in them. This free download has quite a bit of that sound, especially on the first album:
http://www.prettylightsmusic.com/
I just put on the album and starting trying to create rythymic ideas of my own and copied any sweeps I heard that really caught my attention. It helps to forget your foot is doing anything, just try to make a consistent sweep and really listen to your sound.
My Moog just got in and its sounds even better than I thought it would, its got so many tones just by itself. Last night I used it at a gig and got some sick sound coming from OC2->SYB5->Moog LPF.
I just put the SYB-5 on a waveform, usually the sawtooth and get some clean sounding dubstep tones. I blend in some of the OC-2 for some extra fatness and dirt to the tone.
Also, just OC2->Moog LPF gets some super syrupy hip-hop/ dub bass which I managed to use in our version of 'Pick Up the Pieces', but it was getting lost in the mix because the amp I used is underpowered and has a lame eq (Fender Rumble 100).
Next step: DBX 166XL and an Avatar 2x12"
I just put the SYB-5 on a waveform, usually the sawtooth and get some clean sounding dubstep tones. I blend in some of the OC-2 for some extra fatness and dirt to the tone.
Also, just OC2->Moog LPF gets some super syrupy hip-hop/ dub bass which I managed to use in our version of 'Pick Up the Pieces', but it was getting lost in the mix because the amp I used is underpowered and has a lame eq (Fender Rumble 100).
Next step: DBX 166XL and an Avatar 2x12"
I have got to say that the Sherman Filterbank MKII is very very nice with a bass guitar. It overdrives beautifully....
