Double Bass Lucky Me, I Guess

[Gramby1138]

Hi, all. This is my first post on the forum. A few months ago I got an upright bass from a friend of mine, and I've just this weekend started looking for info on it. It's a Framus 3/4 Strad copy. My friend said she rescued it from a high school that was going to be torn down, and she had it for a number of years before I got it. It's in decent shape, except for the finish that is chipping off of the scroll, the edges, and the right shoulder (good ol' buckle wear). It's nice and loud, came with a bow, and it's pretty fun to play. I just need to build up those forearm muscles because I can barely last a few minutes before my arm starts burning. :/

Anyway, I'm looking forward to learning whatever I can here.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

It looks like a nice bass! I encourage you to welcome the buckle rash, chips and scratches because they tell a story. There's something about old basses like yours that I really like. They say, 'I've been there'. Experience.
Looking at the second picture it looks like the bridge might be warped. It should be almost perfectly straight on the tailpiece side and perpendicular to the top. Check it and, if it isn't as it should be, see if you can grab it between the D and A strings and push it down a bit. Minor warping can sometimes be taken care of this way. That might also lower the string heights a bit.
Learn what you can and get some lessons before you hurt yourself. Seriously.

Then, enjoy it.

 

[SAlcott]

Invest in a setup by a bass luthier and get someone who knows what they're doing to at least point you in the right direction technique wise. Burning arm is not a good start.

 

[bassfacer22]

That action is a joke! Got to take that to your local luthier..

But even more importantly do you know any serious gigging bass player in your area - and have him come try it and tell you the situation.

Tis sad but true sometimes luthiers try to make work like car mechanics, telling you things like your finger board needs a planning.. And such and all the sudden the cost is $500+ when you just need only a new bridge or adjusters and setup for $250-400..

Have a teacher bass player try that out or something if you can

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

And sometimes they give free advice on the Internet.

 

[bassfacer22]

And sometimes they give free advice on the Internet.

True and please don't take me wrong.. I just experienced a few guys who keep telling me things I should do with my basses and what they want to do will drastically change my bass but I like the way it is so I don't want them too but anyway..


I have many stories unfortunately..
I had one luthier in Copenhagen make my bass feel awesome and then the next guy, who was really reputable, - he actually kinda made my bass worse..

Unfortunately I ran into the old classic of "well it has to be and should be this way" type of guys and they go by the book which is unfortunately what caused me to be a little biased now about setup guys sometimes.. When a bass plays good and feels good, you don't carve and shave more off the bridge right!


But it's all good bridges can be replaced and eventually have to anyway.. But I've had a few luthiers tell me I need to plan my fingerboard on a completely new bass I just bought and it feels good and I only get a tiny bit of buzz because my action is currently extremely low.. But it feels so good so why is everybody trying to plan my fingerboard???!

Ha ok now you know the full story..

**Edit*

Oh and I forgot one luthier apparently tried to move my soundpost on a portable travel bass and I believe they are setup specifically and "set" in because you remove the neck and travel with it.. I can see markings on the soundpost like it's been moved etc.. who knows.. but I know this specific luthier was asking about my soundpost all the time.. So Imagine they moved it..

anyway I've had some good and some bad experiences and in the end the bass just has to feel good and sound good.. Sometimes I get it and sometimes I don't.. But I've had my share of setups that just didn't work..

the end result of all of this is just I haven't really found my "setup guy" yet.. well, I kinda have but I have to travel overseas all the time to see him.. ha.

 

[drurb]

Wow. Beginning about 40 years ago, I've had really good experiences with bass luthiers. I've never been pressured to do work. Quite the opposite, I've been told on occasion that this or that modification might not be wise as it might be like kicking a hornet's nest. IME, if one is going to generalize, I'd say that bass luthiers are dedicated, skilled professionals who care deeply about the instrument, are generous with their time, and take good care of their customers. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I really don't think know so. Sure, there are bad eggs out there but, to me, anyway, they are very much the exception. Then again, there are hacks who call themselves bass luthiers, who have no business claiming that title. They are relatively easy to sniff out and avoid.

 

[prhine]

Wow. Beginning about 40 years ago, I've had really good experiences with bass luthiers. I've never been pressured to do work. Quite the opposite, I've been told on occasion that this or that modification might not be wise as it might be like kicking a hornet's nest. IME, if one is going to generalize, I'd say that bass luthiers are dedicated, skilled professionals who care deeply about the instrument, are generous with their time, and take good care of their customers. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I really don't think know so. Sure, there are bad eggs out there but, to me, anyway, they are very much the exception. Then again, there are hacks who call themselves bass luthiers, who have no business claiming that title. They are relatively easy to sniff out and avoid.

Hi, all. This is my first post on the forum. A few months ago I got an upright bass from a friend of mine, and I've just this weekend started looking for info on it. It's a Framus 3/4 Strad copy. My friend said she rescued it from a high school that was going to be torn down, and she had it for a number of years before I got it. It's in decent shape, except for the finish that is chipping off of the scroll, the edges, and the right shoulder (good ol' buckle wear). It's nice and loud, came with a bow, and it's pretty fun to play. I just need to build up those forearm muscles because I can barely last a few minutes before my arm starts burning. :/

Anyway, I'm looking forward to learning whatever I can here.

Reminds me of my first double bass in the '70s. It too was the same bass maker. The basses look like twins.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Wow. Beginning about 40 years ago, I've had really good experiences with bass luthiers. I've never been pressured to do work. Quite the opposite, I've been told on occasion that this or that modification might not be wise as it might be like kicking a hornet's nest. IME, if one is going to generalize, I'd say that bass luthiers are dedicated, skilled professionals who care deeply about the instrument, are generous with their time, and take good care of their customers. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I really don't think know so. Sure, there are bad eggs out there but, to me, anyway, they are very much the exception. Then again, there are hacks who call themselves bass luthiers, who have no business claiming that title. They are relatively easy to sniff out and avoid.

I'm not fit to use the title 'luthier' and I won't until I've done a few scroll grafts and made some instruments. I do setups and relatively minor repairs. That, I am good at.
In my experience, people in this fielld get into it because they love it. You won't last long if the goal is to make a quick buck.

 

[bassfacer22]

To Drurb and Greg Clinkingbeard..

These guys I mention I felt are trying to make "quick bucks".. there are so many factors involved, it could have been just the timing and they needing money because of some big payments or who knows... but yes it was just bad luck..

I ofcourse have had my good shares of experiences with luthiers as well.. One example (and I can't even remember who it was) but he sat with my for an hour just moving the soundpost and then I played it and then he moved it and I played it until we got it to where "I" felt it sounded good and felt the best for me (the actual person who has to play the darn bass everyday!)..

I totally respect luthiers and I wouldn't be playing bass today even without them.. I've also grown up my life (though I'm not that old..) with terrible setups, So I've been through many terrible high action and bridges that are just warped etc..

the point of this to the Original Poster is Get a good setup with a guy who takes the time to see how you want to play the instrument since you are playing it.

ah just go get it setup or played by a local gigging bassist who can tell you what it needs - so the action isn't like that in the pictures!.

 

[notabene]

I've "restored" a few basses from wreckage. I've become aware that there are so many complex, interconnected contributing factors to optimizing a bass, that intuition, (I'd like to say "gut") instinct gained over long experience are a very important part being a good bass luthier. I'm too late in life to gain all the intuitive sense one might, but if you find a luthier with it, appreciate him or her.

 

[Feral Feline]

Welcome to TB @Gramby1138 !

I know you joined earlier than your first posting, but participating is what forums are about.

Listen to the pain, don't try to play through it. Discomfort is one thing, and can be played through, but not pain. Speaking from experience, it's easy to injure yourself with these large wild beasts. Speaking of which, yours is a beaut!

I'll suggest leaning the bass face into the corner, to protect the bridge, but take care to make sure it's resting/nesting in the corner on its shoulders with the scroll/neck/fingerboard not touching anything.

What kind of music are you playing on it? I see nothing wrong with the string height off the end of the fingerboard for aggressive slapping if the strings are suitable. What's the gap between string and FB at the nut? I've read it should be about a credit-card thick... If you've got guy-wire cables for strings though, it's no wonder your arms are burning. Maybe some new strings would help alleviate the burning...

Enjoy your DB journey!

Cheers,
FF

 

[TroyK]

That action is a joke! Got to take that to your local luthier..

I don't get it. Appears to me to be in an acceptable range based on a bunch of assumptions that may or my not apply.

Professional set up with new strings and maybe a bridge is certain advised.

I would say "lucky you" unless you just don't want it, in which case someone near you surely will, so..."lucky them"

Good on whoever rescued it from that school.

 

[bassfacer22]

I don't get it. Appears to me to be in an acceptable range based on a bunch of assumptions that may or my not apply.

Professional set up with new strings and maybe a bridge is certain advised.

I would say "lucky you" unless you just don't want it, in which case someone near you surely will, so..."lucky them"

Good on whoever rescued it from that school.

yeah Have you not seen this?? you can put more than your thumb in there..

I doubt he is some insane classical player that needs that kind of action with the bow.. as he just got it from a friend - that got it in high-school, and he mentioned his arm hurts.. I'm sure those strings aren't exactly "loose" strings.. and god knows where the sound-post is set, especially after being through high-school kids..

 

[TroyK]

I saw it, I understand. I agree that it needs setup. Not everyone goes for low "action" on DB. Giving the string room to vibrate can open up the sound and volume of a bass and lots of players prefer it that way, especially guys who don't like to rely on amplification, regardless of what style of music they are playing. Mine are not quite this high, but I personally don't want my strings as close as possible to the fingerboard because I like to dig in and get things moving more.

The fact that his arms are burning right now, doesn't really tell me anything about the bass. There is some conditioning to be done and there is a lot of technique that will not come naturally that will make a huge difference as well.

No argument between us that this bass needs strings and a setup. School rescues always do. I also don't claim to know what the OP's needs and preferences are, but likely neither does he. Something to work through with a luthier and if there is a local player or teacher who is available to work with him, so much the better. Don't know where the OP is, but if he were in Seattle, I usually volunteer. If he wants to disclose his location, perhaps someone else will. Bassists tend to be cool that way.

 

[Gramby1138]

Thanks for the insight and the welcome, everyone! I appreciate the tips for sure. I got in touch with a fellow to whom I'd sold an electric bass about a year ago, and he plays a Framus cutaway upright in a kind of gypsy jazz combo. I reached out to him with a couple of questions, and he said he'd be happy to give me a couple of lessons to get me started if I want. So hopefully that will help with the muscle strain...I'm sure I'm positioning my left hand incorrectly. I played violin in school, so I know good form goes a long way.

As to the action, I will tell you that it IS too high. I also play bass at my church, and this summer they bought an upright because we were doing a kind of "unplugged" format...acoustics, the upright, a stripped-down drum kit...and the action is much lower on that. So yeah, it's funny (but perfectly sensible) to think that even bowed instruments like these need a setup like their fretted cousins. And yes, the bridge is slightly warped. I'll see if I can loosen the strings and reset it a bit.

I know strings can be expensive. I was shocked to see them going for $150 on the internet. If that's the case I'll changing strings very infrequently. I'm sure I'll want to work up to it, but is it really that bad to use cheaper strings at first? I'm sure the strings haven't been changed in at least 10 years.

Feral Feline, as far as style, I don't really have anything I'd like to play hardcore. I'm a multi-instrumentalist, but I learned bass before I learned guitar, so I kind of feel like that's my "roots" instrument. When I'm playing my own stuff, it's kind of a folky-tinged indie rock or alt-country. But I love jazz, old classic country, bluegrass, 50s rock...all fine applications for a DB. The string height at the nut is about what you thought it might be...that is, I can slide a credit card in there easily, but that's about it. I'll talk to my local DB friend, and maybe when he gives me a lesson he can help me make a couple of easy adjustments before I bring it to a luthier.

Other than that, I'm delighted with the bass. I love the chips and dings and buckle rash. Like you said, Greg, they tell a story. I've always been drawn to the instruments that are kind of beaters, because they're the ones that "talk" to me when I'm playing them. I'm happy with the tone and volume.

How can I tell whether the top is carved or laminated?

 

[Gramby1138]

Also, I'm trying to find an approximate date for it. I've seen labels that say "Made in Germany" (like mine) and labels that say "Made in West Germany." Someone in another thread here mentioned that the former indicates pre-war manufacture, but I won't put all my eggs in that basket quite yet. I saw another thread that mentioned that the rosewood fingerboard is a feature on their educational instruments, which according to the Framus website could be from as early as 1955. I tried to send Framus a message on their heritage website, but there's some bug that won't let me send it, even though I've filled in all the text fields. Any insight on that?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

At the very least, since you are a beginner consider getting the bridge looked at and fit with adjusters. Sure, it'll cost some $$, but on the bright side for the price of a cheap BG you will have a playable DB with tons of character that you can adjust to your technique as your technique grows. As for strings, if you will be playing mostly pizzicato, then an investment in a set of Thomastik Spirocore (Mittels or Weichs) can last you 10 years or more. Congrats on your luck!

 

[Feral Feline]

Be sure to try your gypsy-jazzer pal's Framus if you can. Always good to compare other basses to see where you and yours is at (relatively).

 

[Selim]

Wow. Beginning about 40 years ago, I've had really good experiences with bass luthiers. I've never been pressured to do work. Quite the opposite, I've been told on occasion that this or that modification might not be wise as it might be like kicking a hornet's nest. IME, if one is going to generalize, I'd say that bass luthiers are dedicated, skilled professionals who care deeply about the instrument, are generous with their time, and take good care of their customers. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I really don't think know so. Sure, there are bad eggs out there but, to me, anyway, they are very much the exception. Then again, there are hacks who call themselves bass luthiers, who have no business claiming that title. They are relatively easy to sniff out and avoid.

+1. In fact, the luthier I have been using for the last 7-8 years now keeps talking me out of modifications that I propose (Gee, what do you think about upgrading these tuners? ... "What for? The ones you have now work fine"!).

The only aspect of luthiers/repair experiences that is kind of bogus is when a luthier is dealing with you and your bass just fine and then somebody like Ron Carter arrives. Then, it's all rush rush get you out the door. I specifically remember that happening to me 3 times (Ron Carter, Miroslav Vitous and somebody who played in the NY Phil), many years ago. In fact, at the moment when Ron Carter came in, the guy was fitting me a new bridge. All of a sudden, zip zap, it was done. I don't go to that person any more (and this is a "highly regarded" luthier).

While it's true that some issues are "quick fixes", in general I am suspicious of people who work "zip zap."

Contrast that with the guy who I see now - he also fit me a new bridge once, and I started making small talk. He asked me to please stop talking. Not while he's fitting a bridge ... He's also a very highly regarded luthier. I was there for quite a while ... keeping my mouth shut.