Mackie DL 1608 vs Presonus 16.0.4

[red_rhino]

I'm following this thread with interest, since i'm weighing up a similar decision - along with whether to move up a step for the 16.4.2, or wait until the 16.4.2ai becomes commonly available over here or go for an X32 rack or producer.

So, Come on guys, let's keep the discussion to the mixers rather than an IOS vs Android wank off

Nobody's wanking. The OS platform is a legitimate discussion point regarding regarding the trend in digital mixers. joelb79 was merely putting forth a question and I was trying to answer it. Everyone has their opinions and points-of-view and we all respect that, I'm sure.

-Alan

 

[Geri O]

Yeah, it's wanking. I love Android, but in the world of remote control of digital mixers, iOS rules, period. I've been in pro audio for 21 years, I was part of the remote control evolution. Maybe that will change, it won't hurt my feelings if it does, but at the present time, iOS rules. The end...

I'm wondering why no one has mentioned the Behringer X16 or X32 as a candidate for a small digital mixer. If the name is bothering you, then you have waay bigger problems in life than the name on the mixer. It's made in the same factory in China as the Midas Pro 1. It's a far superior mixer to the Presonus in every way. Sound quality, reliability, motorized faders, price, features, bang for the buck, frankly, there's no comparison. And you simply hang a router on it for remote access, no Macbook or PC required. We do national bands year round and we stake our reputation on our gear. We don't offer the X32 to Vince Gill or Staind, but for nearly every thing else, including my bluegrass, jazz, and orchestra work, it's the best way to go, unless I need more than 32 channels. I've seen a dozen Presonuses returned to the factoryin the last 2 years, to the point of we just don't offer them for sale anymore. We sell the Soundcraft Si series and the Behringer X series. Haven't seen one need repair yet.

In my world, I don't really care what people buy and use, it's their cross to bear. But by all means, don't pass up a test drive with the Behringer. We were very skeptical for many months before we tried one in our shop and we were quite pleasantly surprised. And recently, we (18 soundguys and soundgirls) did a shoot-out with the X32, a Yamaha LS9 (still a good mixer, just dated), Yamaha M7CL, Yamaha PM5D, a Presonus SL24, and our flagship Yamaha CL5. The CL was everyone's favorite, the Behringer tied for second with the PM5D, the Presonus came out on bottom. (no, we didn't have any other Midas or Avid products to compare, but we learned all we need to know)

At 55, I've stopped mixing and gone back to playing. Next year, there's no question that I'll set up a Behringer X32 for our monitor rig to drive the band's IEM mixes.

Thanx for playing along,
Geri O

 

[Jools4001]

Thanks Geri, that's really helpful.

The X32 is on my radar. What it comes down to, for me at least, is the usual 'bang per buck' equation.

I suspect that both the DL1608 and 16.0.2 would be fine for my current band. I already have a Lightning equipped iPad, and a Firewire equipped laptop - so, no problem with extra equipment needed and I'm leaning towards the Presonus because of it's better live recording capability.

Then I'm drawn to the 16.4.2 because of it's integration with stuff like SMAART with all the tools for room equalisation etc (the 16.0.2 only has a small subset of these). The 16.4.2 is £400 more than the 16.0.2 but holds out the possibility of not having to spend out on Driveracks and Equalisers, but at that price point the X32 Rack also becomes a contender, and I could see how I could integrate one of those into my current rack and have a small compact system that would only take minutes to setup.

But then who wants a 16.4.2 when I would be buying a product that is at the end of it's life and obsoleted by the 16.4.2 ai, but there is also a fair bet that the ai will be around £4-500 more expensive than the heavily discounted outgoing model, at which point the X32 producer comes into competition...and I'm now at twice the price of the rig I first considered.

I have other plans and side projects where a more sophisticated system would give lots more options, so if I can justify the spend I may well do that....but trying to get the best fit and avoid 'scope creep, is a nightmare at the moment.

 

[modulusman]

Thanks Geri, that's really helpful.

The X32 is on my radar. What it comes down to, for me at least, is the usual 'bang per buck' equation.

I suspect that both the DL1608 and 16.0.2 would be fine for my current band. I already have a Lightning equipped iPad, and a Firewire equipped laptop - so, no problem with extra equipment needed and I'm leaning towards the Presonus because of it's better live recording capability.

Then I'm drawn to the 16.4.2 because of it's integration with stuff like SMAART with all the tools for room equalisation etc (the 16.0.2 only has a small subset of these). The 16.4.2 is £400 more than the 16.0.2 but holds out the possibility of not having to spend out on Driveracks and Equalisers, but at that price point the X32 Rack also becomes a contender, and I could see how I could integrate one of those into my current rack and have a small compact system that would only take minutes to setup.

But then who wants a 16.4.2 when I would be buying a product that is at the end of it's life and obsoleted by the 16.4.2 ai, but there is also a fair bet that the ai will be around £4-500 more expensive than the heavily discounted outgoing model, at which point the X32 producer comes into competition...and I'm now at twice the price of the rig I first considered.

I have other plans and side projects where a more sophisticated system would give lots more options, so if I can justify the spend I may well do that....but trying to get the best fit and avoid 'scope creep, is a nightmare at the moment.

Too bad you are not in the US. Musicians friend had a black Friday sale and you could buy a Presonus 24.4.2 for $1499.95. That is a killer deal.[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Ferret]

I LOVE MY MACKIE DL1608

 

[seamonkey]

B* answers
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It will probably not hit the streets for years, but it does have some good ideas.
Not locked into IOS, it will can work with a PC now, and looks like Android soon.
WiFi built in
Ultranet built in for the likes of P16-M personal monitor
Programmable pre-amps from MIDAS
MIDI
RTA
The virtual rack has Lexicon and Quantec and future FX promised, but what I'm really hoping for is they do some X32 plugin support so Waves and other vendor virtual plugins also work.

Mackie has the jump, and plenty of time to add in some of these features.

Presonous has dropped prices and has the new AI. It's outstanding. For studio/live both uses it can't be beat.

Good luck picking just one Digital mixer these days.

 

[oddeotek]

I love my DL1608 as well. One of my bandmates told me that I was making a mistake when I bought it by not waiting "a few weeks" for the X16. It's been over a year and many successful shows since then. Meanwhile, the X16 never materialized and the X18 is months away from stores, if at all. That same bandmate usually has a smile on his face when he is adjusting his IEM with his iPhone, as do the rest of the group. It's an easy board to learn and works well for my needs. I do not have regrets about my purchase even though my last mixer was an amazing, but expensive and heavy, Yamaha LS9-16.

 

[seamonkey]

Mackie 1608 is a great mixer. And Mackie has been doing updates. That's a nice thing about digital is you can update the firmware.

Behringer has a predictable track record, X18 is years from being released, By the time it does, Mackie and others should have new models and be able to reuse software they developed for th 1608.
It's good that Behringer just saying what they plan to do as it pushes Mackie and others to do more.

 

[Joe Ty]

Who's found a small router for this (Mackie, not Presonus) that they are really happy with?

 

[DirtDog]

Who's found a small router for this (Mackie, not Presonus) that they are really happy with?

I'm using a bog standard dual band D-Link router (DIR-816L, I think?). Works just fine - not the smallest you can get, but not huge, either.

To add to the convo: over the last year or so, I have owned and used live, in this order: the Presonus 16.4.2 (non-AI), the Behringer X16 and the Mackie DL1608. I'm sticking with the Mackie. Observations:

1. Originally liked the hands on form factor of the Presonus, liked the workflow and FAT channel. Needed a firewire connection to laptop + router + iPad to make wireless control work live. But often the whole thing bricked in the middle of a show. Not good, even with the latest firmware. Thought is still would be a good studio tool, but doesn't integrate easily with my DAW like my MOTU interface does. Not sure how the AI or the 3rd gen versions of these mixers perform, but at almost $3k (Cdn), I'm not about to experiment!

2. Adapted to the smaller form factor and remote control of the Behringer X16. Wireless was a snap using either the internal or an external router. UI of the X16 app on iPad left a lot to be desired. Took too many button presses to do something simple like sweeping across channels. Tried the Android version and it was not stable at all. Interestingly had the same unstable experience with the X32 and the app for Windows Surface while doing sound for a buddy's band a few time. Fine control of parameters was fussy, even on a big screen. Have been hesitant to trust the Behringer apps thereafter although many do. Good price and very convenient and non-intrusive form factor though.

3. Happy medium for me is the DL1608. Nice compact form factor, but still has that mixing desk like feel. I like the iPad docking capability of the hardware; the app is a good as they come. 100% stable and easy to use compared to Presonus and Behringer's offerings. Only outboard required is the router. Seems Mackie is committed to the MasterFader ecosystem - there's frequent updates based on requirements coming from the user community. App is very easy to use on stage while playing. If I had need for more channels, I would go for the DL32 hardware in a second.

 

[Joe Ty]

I'm using a bog standard dual band D-Link router (DIR-816L, I think?). Works just fine - not the smallest you can get, but not huge, either.

To add to the convo: over the last year or so, I have owned and used live, in this order: the Presonus 16.4.2 (non-AI), the Behringer X16 and the Mackie DL1608. I'm sticking with the Mackie. Observations:

1. Originally liked the hands on form factor of the Presonus, liked the workflow and FAT channel. Needed a firewire connection to laptop + router + iPad to make wireless control work live. But often the whole thing bricked in the middle of a show. Not good, even with the latest firmware. Thought is still would be a good studio tool, but doesn't integrate easily with my DAW like my MOTU interface does. Not sure how the AI or the 3rd gen versions of these mixers perform, but at almost $3k (Cdn), I'm not about to experiment!

2. Adapted to the smaller form factor and remote control of the Behringer X16. Wireless was a snap using either the internal or an external router. UI of the X16 app on iPad left a lot to be desired. Took too many button presses to do something simple like sweeping across channels. Tried the Android version and it was not stable at all. Interestingly had the same unstable experience with the X32 and the app for Windows Surface while doing sound for a buddy's band a few time. Fine control of parameters was fussy, even on a big screen. Have been hesitant to trust the Behringer apps thereafter although many do. Good price and very convenient and non-intrusive form factor though.

3. Happy medium for me is the DL1608. Nice compact form factor, but still has that mixing desk like feel. I like the iPad docking capability of the hardware; the app is a good as they come. 100% stable and easy to use compared to Presonus and Behringer's offerings. Only outboard required is the router. Seems Mackie is committed to the MasterFader ecosystem - there's frequent updates based on requirements coming from the user community. App is very easy to use on stage while playing. If I had need for more channels, I would go for the DL32 hardware in a second.

Thanks so much for posting this. The recent price drop on the Presonus 16.4.2AI had me rethinking, but I'm back to the DL1608.

I have a very thin, but fairly protective, case for my iPad. Do you think I'd have to remove it when using the docking station? I have a new iPad, so it's fairly thin to begin with.

This may impact whether to get the matching case as I understand it protects you iPad more than anything.

 

[DirtDog]

Thanks so much for posting this. The recent price drop on the Presonus 16.4.2AI had me rethinking, but I'm back to the DL1608.

I have a very thin, but fairly protective, case for my iPad. Do you think I'd have to remove it when using the docking station? I have a new iPad, so it's fairly thin to begin with.

This may impact whether to get the matching case as I understand it protects you iPad more than anything.

no problems, happy to help out!

I've got an iPad Air and it sits snugly in the slot on the dock. I don't think it would work with a cover of any kind. You would have to remove if you want to dock it, I would guess. Although there's an adapter you can buy for older iPads where you might be able to slide it in with the cover on...

Incidentally, I keep mine docked almost 100% of time, even during transport. I've got a nice breifcase type aluminum tool case that I've repurposed to house the mixer/iPad during transport. I use a spare iPad mini I have when I want to roam around a venue.

 

[s0c9]

I have a very thin, but fairly protective, case for my iPad. Do you think I'd have to remove it when using the docking station? I have a new iPad, so it's fairly thin to begin with.

None of the DL 1608's I've seen in use have looked like they accommodate iPad cases of any kind. I don't own a 1608, but that's what I've observed.

 

[EastCoastThump]

It's been a couple years since I sold my 1608, but if memory serves the iPad docks with the top of the mixer with pretty tight tolerances. I definitely had to remove my iPad from its case to dock it.

 

[walterw]

look at the Invalid Link Removed, specifically the two foot version.

if it works like the older 30-pin one did, you can leave your ipad in a nice sturdy case, plug the extender cable into the mackie and lay it on top of the mixer. (cheap extender cables didn't work at all for me)

frankly though, now that the XR18 has kinda left the DL1608 in the dust, the whole "dock your ipad into the mixer" thing just seems kind of quaint; just get yourself a good dual band router and skip the docking port entirely.

 

[s0c9]

just get yourself a good dual band router and skip the docking port entirely.

+1000% Make it DUAL band, so you get get your connected devices out of the 2.4 Ghz clutter. Also get [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] for your android devices, so you can scan for used and open frequencies in both bands.
You can then set your 2.4 and 5 Ghz router channels to the best (open) channels at any venue. Takes 30 seconds.

 

[4Mal]

I use a netgear dual band. Tie wrapped to a little block of oak. That is mounted to a mic stand threaded adapter from Atlas. $11 bucks on Amazon. Now I can wander the crowd with no dropouts

 

[walterw]

$11 bucks on Amazon.

the router was eleven dollars?

Now I can wander the crowd with no dropouts

did you find the elevated mounting to make a real difference?

 

[s0c9]

the router was eleven dollars?

did you find the elevated mounting to make a real difference?

ABSOLUTELY.. . Mine is mounted the same way.. but I use bungee cords to hook to a universal tablet mount that screws into the top of the mic stand. Same principle. Ours [mine] sits up behind the drummer to his left at around the same height as @4Mal's.

It's dual band (Archer C7) and we use the 5Ghz mostly.. the 2.4 is failover mostly.. due to clutter in that band.
The IP for the router is set to a non-standard 3rd node value. 192.168.31.* The available DHCP range is restricted to those above 200. So from 192.168.31.200 to 192.168.31.255. This allows 56 device connections. I could make it a smaller number, but <shrug>? The consoles (we have 2) are set to static IP's outside the DHCP range. eg: 192.168.31.105 and 192.168.31.106
That said, you CAN use any value other than 1 for the 3rd node, from 2 thru 255.
This gets us out of the typical 2.4Ghz wifi scan for SSID broadcast networks on 192.168.1.*.
Since going to 5 Ghz, we have had ZERO dropouts..

 

[4Mal]

I do a couple of venues where there can be tight packed crowds. Had connection issues. Then I had a B level touring act come through. fOH guy was all setup with a rack of x32 and S16's and in ears support. He just handed me a left and right line and away we went. I stole the idea from him. Haven't had connection issues in either of my problematic rooms since.now... can I be certain? Not really but for the cost ... it seems like a decent enough idea. I do a lot of tent shows in the fall. Those can get super crowded. Last fall it all just worked. My small tent at Harvest Fest Hood River last year was slammed. We had the beer. We had the brats. We had the tent and it was raining sideways... yes we had a crowd...