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Mackie DL 1608 vs Presonus 16.0.4

agreatheight

agreatheight

Dec 23, 2005
4,269
33
55
Portland Area, ME
#1
All right, I am considering the purchase of a digital board. The two I am most interested in are the Mackie DL 1608 and the Presonus 16.0.4.

I like the form factor of the DL 1608 (SMALL!) but you need to have an iPad to get her going, and it looks like you need a router to make the wireless stuff happen. I also like the 16 channels / 16 mic pres and the 6 aux sends - more than I would need, but good in case. $1K but a $100 rebate right now, so $900.

I like that the 16.0.4 doesn't need anything to get running, but I would want to add an iPad at some point anyway. It is bigger than the DL 1608 but I am not sure how much. It has 16 channels as well, but 4 less mic pres and 2 less aux sends - which I think would be fine... but more is better. I am not sure if you need a router to make the wireless stuff happen on this board. $1K.

Thoughts?
 
#6
Musicman, your post was very helpful.

Do you really need a Mac laptop to run wireless gear with the Presonus? The specs don't make that clear. That would be a deal breaker for me. I want less stuff to hump in, not more, and I don't have an Apple laptop, just PC.

I am leaning toward the Mackie as of right now...
 
#7
OK, from some additional reading, it does seem like you need a laptop hooked up to the Presonus to get the wireless up and running. Still not sure if it needs to be an Apple laptop, but even if not I am not sure I want to drag in a laptop, even a cheap one.

Leaning harder toward the Mackie...
 
#8
I'm a real fan of the 16.4.2. The 16.0.2, not as much. The new series of Presonus SL boards are offering on board wireless - I forget if it starts with the 16.4 or 24.4 though. On the 4.2 series you get a 31 band graphhic on each aux and the ability to run the auxes back through the FAT channel for gate, comp/limit and 4 band semi parametric. On the 16.0.2 you don't get the graphic but you still get the FAT channel. I like the graphic when running the iPad remote...

In my rig, I cut out 2 outboard racks going to the 16.4.2. That freed up a lot of space and stuff... Cables, time, etc... I was Ok adding in a used low end macbook as I wanted the iPad remote control but also to record. The integration between the hardware and software is really tight in the Presonus world. I like Studio One a bunch. I also cutout my Protools rig as the Presonus hardware and software gives me what I got there as well. Talk about cutting down...

One last on the Presonus - you can do the remote with a laptop the has firewire, doesn't need to be a mac. Idid it with an old Lenovo T6 and it worked fine. For recording you need a laptop where the firewire is not based on the Ricoh chipset as it glitches... After pawing about the net, it was easier for me to go used mac... Still there are folks out there in the Presonus community using Windows machines for remote and Capture.

I totally get where someone would want to go as bare bones as possible. Over the winter, I may look at the smaller version of the DL1608 (806?). Very attractive form factor for small gigs or restaurant /low volume gigs.
 
#10
Actually the router is un-neccessary. Just setup a lan on the laptop... And yes firewire between the board and laptop whichever type it is. If you have the correct firewire chipset, non-Richoh- the Pc or Mac makes no difference. I prefer the windows for biz and email. Macbook for music but thats just preference.
 
#11
i have a limited example set of what i've used on gigs, but to me if you're going digital the whole idea of paying for a big board full of plastic knobs and sliders to turn seems kind of a throwback, especially if they're not motorized, so an adjustment on your touch surface doesn't translate to where the plastic fader knobs are.

also, the idea of needing an entire laptop and a router in between the mixer and the remote touch surface seems like a total rig-up.

so yeah, it's the mackie for me.

(if i wanted to go with something more "tangible", the new A-H QU-16 looks really good, with motorized faders, the ability to run their remote digital stage boxes, and no laptop bodge needed to run an ipad.)
 
#12
I saw this post and thought I would lend an opinion here. I am not a bass player, but am into music and recording, and do the sound and sing in a band called MidLife Crysis out of Nashua NH.

I also run a small recording business where I not only need to be in a studio, but also mobile. I am the producer for a radio show called DreamFarm Radio that is broadcast on a bunch of NPR stations across the US, so it was important for me to have gear that is portable, but powerful.

I started out with a Mackie 1642i Firewire mixer because it gave me 16 channels of recording and mixing, while being able to run it to my MAC Book Pro for recording. Great setup for both live and studio recording, but there is better gear for my purposes.

The problem I had was in order for me to use the Mackie 1642 for live shows, I needed outboard gear for effects, EQ, Comp, Gates, etc... So I was still dragging around a lot of stuff. I could do it through my Laptop, but there are problems with that as well, especially in the area of monitors and delay.

I was at a live show this summer and saw a band that was using the PreSonus 32.4.2 Studio Live. This is a 32 channel, 4 bus mixer with 10 sends. Each pair of sends could be linked for a stereo monitor mix, effectively providing 5 stereo monitor mixes. NO SNAKE TO RUN, as the board is on stage and then run from an iPad as the sound guy moves around to adjust things.

OK that is too big for me and so I decided to look at the 16.4.2, which is 16 channels, 4 buses, and 6 sends (3 stereo monitor mixes). This gives me the ability to:

For the band:
1. Run the band for live shows where everyone gets a mono monitor mix (we use 5 mixes)
2. All effects on-board (2 effects engines) to mains and monitors
3. No out-bound equipment to lug around (Look up the FAT channel for Studiolive, it is very cool)
4. Can use my laptop to capture the live gig and use it for a live recording (ALL CHANNELS)
5. Use my iPad to control EVERYTHING needed so I can be on stage singing
6. Band members could use their iPod/iPhone to control their own monitor mixes (Very Cool)

For Recording:
1. Same as above
2. Run the audio signals into Pro-Tools (or other DAW software)

One last comment. I have the PreSonus 16.4.2 which DOES require me to connect it via Firewire 400 to my Laptop. I then connect the Laptop to a wireless network, and then all of the i-devices connect to it via wireless. Not a bad way to go, but it requires me to have my Laptop with the mixer on stage. I am OK with this, as I built a mixer stand that has a slide out shelf for the laptop, and allows me to use it for the House Music.

If I were to buy it today, I would buy the 16.4.2ai because it has on-board WIFI that would not require a Laptop to do remote control. Everything else is the same except that it has FireWire 800, which is faster.

Hope this was helpful. Any questions or comments, I am happy to discuss further.
 
#14
Yes, knobs at hand are, well, handy. But that's a different class of board to my mind. The Mackie 1608 seems suited for jobs on which the band is supplying its own sound w/o a dedicated FOH engineer. In those cases, the small footprint is a boon, and whatever musician is handling the main FOH mix isn't going to be grabbing a bunch of knobs at once on the physical mixer once the show is started. The Souncraft and similar baby digital boards that offer a fuller physical interface also start at about 3X the price of the 1608.

Different market segment.
 
#15
walterw said:
(if i wanted to go with something more "tangible", the new A-H QU-16 looks really good, with motorized faders, the ability to run their remote digital stage boxes, and no laptop bodge needed to run an ipad.)
Click to expand...
We just got the Qu-16 board. I am impressed. The motorized faders are essential, allowing the faders to be used for multiple purposes, channel inputs, mix buses, graphic EQ. And the software, updating, USB drive formatting all seem to work well.
 
#17
The mackie is great. I use it with a band right now. We had a 24.4.2 before that our guitarist swore by, but we never were able to get the wireless to work because of the necessity to bring a PC along with multiple ipads just to get running. The Mackie is a plug and play thing for us, and honestly is much easier to use than the knob interface on the prosonus. I was constantly looking to see if I was on the right layer to make a change with the presonus, but with the mackie i just swipe, find, change, continue playing. I can do that while playing bass, but the presonus was too complex to navigate while playing. too much to remember.

But I would wait for the Behringer version too; only because Behringer is going to include Andriod phone support. lets face it; Android is more popular and arguably better in some ways than iphone now; and more people have them. I do not understand coding for such a limited and trendy customer set when you can code for the world instead. Behringer has a better software/app idea than any other company right now.

The x32 rack is a sweet product as well if you need that many configurable outputs.

There are drawbacks to the Mackie like limited recording ability and some mute issues, but they continue to impress me with the software updates which offer real solutions to these problems. the sound quality seems just fine for what we do; and sounds punchier than prosonus; until you get into the 32.4.2 AI, which sounds incredbile compared to the other prosonus boards.
 
#18
joelb79 said:
lets face it; Android is more popular and arguably better in some ways than iphone now; and more people have them. I do not understand coding for such a limited and trendy customer set when you can code for the world instead.
Click to expand...
i think there are more ipads out there than any other tablet, and i think there are more iphones out there than any one android phone, but yeah, the android market in total is a lot bigger, isn't it?

maybe it's a problem with there not being one specific piece of hardware to design it around; at least for physically mounting the tablet, how would they know the size and shape, the dock placement and all that?

maybe if there was a more robust way of using a cable, of just going USB or whatever. i use a 2' dock extender cable with my band's 1608 (so i can leave it in its case, naked ipads and bars don't mix) and it's sometimes a little unstable unless the ipad is 100% charged; something about the charging circuit causing line noise through the cable if the battery level is significantly lower.

(although having just used it for the first time post 2.0 it worked beautifully, cable or wireless, so maybe not such a big deal anymore.)
 
#19
joelb79 said:
lets face it; Android is more popular and arguably better in some ways than iphone now; and more people have them. I do not understand coding for such a limited and trendy customer set when you can code for the world instead.
Click to expand...

I would hardly characterize the iPhone as "limited" or "trendy".

I guess it depends on whether or not you want the app to work consistently. The behavior across IOS devices is often more consistent than across Android devices for the simple reason that Apple controls both the hardware and software. For product developers like Mackie, this translates to a simpler development roadmap with less customer support overhead.

But IOS or Android aside, I would always purchase a dedicated piece of hardware to use for something like this. Using one's personal laptop/tablet/phone in a gig situation isn't a best practice, IMHO.

-Alan
 
#20
I'm following this thread with interest, since i'm weighing up a similar decision - along with whether to move up a step for the 16.4.2, or wait until the 16.4.2ai becomes commonly available over here or go for an X32 rack or producer.

So, Come on guys, let's keep the discussion to the mixers rather than an IOS vs Android wank off
 

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