Magnets & Copper Wire: A Pickup Building Thread

[Fred Miller]

Using your bolt analogy, if I take a threaded rod and flip it over, the threads still force me to turn the nut to the right. Those turns should reverse if I flipped the rod, but they don't because they are now turning in the opposite direction.

The debate here is not 'have the windings reversed', but is the signal 180° out of phase with the active coil. I am thinking about this very carefully...
Sadly, I don't have suitable coils to experiment with, so I urge anyone that has to try this and report back with an absolute answer.

 

[mapleglo]

The debate here is not 'have the windings reversed', but is the signal 180° out of phase with the active coil. I am thinking about this very carefully...
Sadly, I don't have suitable coils to experiment with, so I urge anyone that has to try this and report back with an absolute answer.

I have wound humbucking pickups, and did not reverse the motor to wind the second coil, only reversed the flatwork on the winder (and the poles of the magnets too, of course). The pickup bucked hum.

 

[ardgedee]

I disagree with your disagreement. If you flip a coil upside down, the winding is reversed from what it was.

No it isn't. Imagine a bolt lies on the table in front of you. Its head is on your left. Now you flip it, so the head is now on your right. Has it now become a "reverse wound" bolt, that will only fit into ?
The thread is the same, only the head points the other way. If it had been a headless bolt, and you flipped it, it would be the same bolt as before.

We might be talking across each other.

In the diagram, A represents the wind of original coil (the primary pickup).
B is A flipped over, coil terminals unchanged.
C is also A flipped over, but with the coil terminals swapped -- this should presumably perform effectively the same as A.
D is not flipped (eg, the same as A), but the coil terminals are swapped and should presumably perform the same as B.

 

[mapleglo]

We might be talking across each other.

View attachment 4982590
In the diagram, A represents the wind of original coil (the primary pickup).
B is A flipped over, coil terminals unchanged.
C is also A flipped over, but with the coil terminals swapped -- this should presumably perform effectively the same as A.
D is not flipped (eg, the same as A), but the coil terminals are swapped and should presumably perform the same as B.

Are you saying that flipping the coil doesn't change the winding direction, and thus, would not buck hum? If so, why does my pickup work?

 

[ardgedee]

Are you saying that flipping the coil doesn't change the winding direction, and thus, would not buck hum? If so, why does my pickup work?

I don't actually know either way (which is why I said "presumably" a lot in that post ).

The goal was to diagram the coil positions and wiring combinations, and then I appended my speculations. Hopefully somebody smarter than me about electronics can settle this. I want to learn where I erred, if I did.

(Edited to add: ) Making that diagram did help clarify something in my mind, which is that the orientation of the coil should be less important than whether the current flows in the opposite clockwise direction to the primary coil.

 

[Verne Andru]

I flipped the polarity on a P90 which involved removing the magnet, flipping it over and reinserting it.

Reversing the Polarity of a Humbucker - An Easy Guide | Fralin Pickups

 

[BishopJP]

I disagree with your disagreement. If you flip a coil upside down, the winding is reversed from what it was.

No it isn't. Imagine a bolt lies on the table in front of you. Its head is on your left. Now you flip it, so the head is now on your right. Has it now become a "reverse wound" bolt, that will only fit into ?
The thread is the same, only the head points the other way. If it had been a headless bolt, and you flipped it, it would be the same bolt as before.

A coil wound clockwise, flipped over, will now be counter-clockwise; that does not speak to the flow of the currrent, just how the wire is wound.

A pick-up coil is not like the threads on a bolt. The coils of wire start at the center and wind over themselves, outward and concentrically, getting wider as you go. The threads on a bolt move along the shaft of the bolt but not getting any diametrically larger.

Not an expert on any of these things, just a guy who works with bolts and screws that have left and right handed threading and I've wound three whole pick-up coils, now!

 

[mapleglo]

A coil wound clockwise, flipped over, will now be counter-clockwise; that does not speak to the flow of the currrent, just how the wire is wound.

Exactly.

 

[ricardol]

A coil wound clockwise, flipped over, will now be counter-clockwise

Sorry to contradict you but this statement is wrong...

 

[BishopJP]

Sorry to contradict you but this statement is wrong...
View attachment 4982927

A pick-up coil, not a spring coil.

 

[Fred Miller]

A coil wound clockwise, flipped over, will now be counter-clockwise

Sorry to contradict you but this statement is wrong...
View attachment 4982927

That statement should read 'A coil wound clockwise, flipped over, will now be counter-clockwise, from the point of view of the start and end points'. Then it makes sense.

 

[BishopJP]

That statement should read 'A coil wound clockwise, flipped over, will now be counter-clockwise, from the point of view of the start and end points'. Then it makes sense.

Ah, yes, thank you for that clarification! I realize that is what I thought, but not exactly what I said.

 

[mapleglo]

Think of it this way. I am winding a pickup on my winding machine. My machine only goes in one direction - it is not reversible. If I flip the pickup over - in other words, stick the top of the pickup to the winder instead of the bottom, and continue to wind it, it will unwind the wire I was just winding. Why? Because it is going in the opposite direction.

Should I make a video?

 

[mapleglo]

Sorry to contradict you but this statement is wrong...
View attachment 4982927

Using your coil analogy, here's a picture I made.

The top coil is the original. Notice the winding direction goes from back to front - counter clockwise if viewed from the edge. The second image *is* the same as the first, except I flipped it. Now notice the coil winding direction goes from front to back - clockwise if viewed from the edge.

 

[Beej]

This discussion is an excellent example of how English is both clear and confusing simultaneously.

 

[ardgedee]

I'm beginning to regret bringing the topic up.

 

[Flamingo21]

I'm beginning to regret bringing the topic up.

Please don't. the discussion is interesting, it hasn't soured the good vibe, and may lead to increased knowledge of many (including me).

What you did here is what I've seen you do several times: stand on the side, observe, think, and then make your remark or ask your question. I think it is a good habit that benefits Luthier's Corner.

 

[MPU]

This discussion is an excellent example of how English is both clear and confusing simultaneously.

Especially for us non-native English tinkerers.

 

[RichterScale]

I'm a native English speaker and I have no idea what anyone is talking about.

 

[ardgedee]

I'm a native English speaker and I have no idea what anyone is talking about.

what?