So I've found the general consensus is that P basses are generally more present in the mix that J basses. I do not want to start a war, and I'm dearly attached to my custom J, but what could you do to make a J cut more through the mix? I have Model J pups in it, wired in series, with 500k pots. Currently running Rotosound 45 - 105 rounds. I love how P's sound, but how J's look and feel. Any ideas?
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Make a J Cut like a P
- Thread starter betardfoosier
- Start date
I have the opposite experience. Emphasizing a P pickup "sits" in the mix, but J pickups "cut" more, for better or worse (I like both...).
Have you tried having your J wired in parallel and favoring the bridge pickup slightly? Or, you can favor the neck ever so slightly if you love P basses. Jazz basses are most "scooped" when both pickups are equal.
Have you tried having your J wired in parallel and favoring the bridge pickup slightly? Or, you can favor the neck ever so slightly if you love P basses. Jazz basses are most "scooped" when both pickups are equal.
How about defining "sit" and "cut" in the mix?
I (me, personally) define cutting through a mix as being able to be heard clearly even when using lower actual volume.
By that definition, the basses I have heard (as an audience member) that "cut" through a mix the best are consistently P basses (and Stingrays). I have heard bands where the bass was a P and even though objectively I would say the rest of the band was possibly twice as loud as the bass, I could still actually clearly hear every note the bass player was playing.
In contrast, I have heard many J basses in a mix where I could tell the bass sound was at least as loud as the rest of the band, yet I still couldn't really hear exactly what the bass player was doing. I could just hear bass sound somewhere in the mix. Or, equally often, I could hear a J and tell what the player is doing, but objectively assess that the actual bass sound in the mix was louder than the rest of the band.
I think, to get a J to cut through a mix the best, the OP should try soloing the neck pickup. I've read many times that having both pickups full on causes a pronounced mid cut. This would seem to go right along with what I'm saying and with the general consensus that bass generally needs mids boosted to cut through a mix. Soloing the neck pickup would eliminate the J bass mid scoop and make it sound as much like a P bass as it can - thus, getting similar benefits to a P bass for cutting through by virtue of the placement of the pickup being used and the natural tone that results.
I (me, personally) define cutting through a mix as being able to be heard clearly even when using lower actual volume.
By that definition, the basses I have heard (as an audience member) that "cut" through a mix the best are consistently P basses (and Stingrays). I have heard bands where the bass was a P and even though objectively I would say the rest of the band was possibly twice as loud as the bass, I could still actually clearly hear every note the bass player was playing.
In contrast, I have heard many J basses in a mix where I could tell the bass sound was at least as loud as the rest of the band, yet I still couldn't really hear exactly what the bass player was doing. I could just hear bass sound somewhere in the mix. Or, equally often, I could hear a J and tell what the player is doing, but objectively assess that the actual bass sound in the mix was louder than the rest of the band.
I think, to get a J to cut through a mix the best, the OP should try soloing the neck pickup. I've read many times that having both pickups full on causes a pronounced mid cut. This would seem to go right along with what I'm saying and with the general consensus that bass generally needs mids boosted to cut through a mix. Soloing the neck pickup would eliminate the J bass mid scoop and make it sound as much like a P bass as it can - thus, getting similar benefits to a P bass for cutting through by virtue of the placement of the pickup being used and the natural tone that results.
Fair enough, I was trying to use a similar language since the op said "Cut". I define it the same way you do, and still have a a different experience when it comes to Ps versus Js. Agreed 100% on Stingrays though.
I don't know what amplification the OP is using but agreed that string choice could also be a factor. But short of modding the bass, I still think biasing towards either pickup should help.
I currently use the bridge pup maxed, with the neck at about 50%, but I will try it the other way around. Sometimes too much neck pup will cause my tone to get muddy, which I partially think my low-heavy 410tx cabs have something to do with.
I am not opposed to modding my bass, is there a pup that fits a singlecoil slot that is more p/mm sounding? My bass is already very chopped up and relic'ed, I am fine with modding. I just want my bass to feel like a j, be present in the mix, with clarity.
I am not opposed to modding my bass, is there a pup that fits a singlecoil slot that is more p/mm sounding? My bass is already very chopped up and relic'ed, I am fine with modding. I just want my bass to feel like a j, be present in the mix, with clarity.
I have heard these broad sweeping statements many times, and 'till the day I die I will argue that it depends on the mix in question.
We can usually agree that basses, pedals, rigs and ultimately bassists sound different from each other. Obviously this goes for guitarists as well, keyboards aren't all similar either and I think the timbre of a singers voice is one of the most defining (because it can't very well be eq'ed all that much) characteristics of a bands sound.
In the end, bands sound very different from one another, with the individual musicians having their own 'spaces': frequency areas that are theirs to dominate, with a result that we can choose to label 'cutting' or 'sitting' or something else. J's, P's, Rays and Rics ted to have a natural emphasis in a certain frequency range, and so it seems obvious to try and exploit that instead of working against it. Analyzing the band's sound is necessary in order to locate the best area for 'cutting' that is close to the bass' natural tone. There is a huge difference between cutting through in Coldplay and in Morbid Angel, but I think most basses could achieve both with the right amount of adjustment from the bassist and the band.
I'd say your jazz can most likely cut just fine, just make sure you have the necessary eq options available and use your ears.
Martin
We can usually agree that basses, pedals, rigs and ultimately bassists sound different from each other. Obviously this goes for guitarists as well, keyboards aren't all similar either and I think the timbre of a singers voice is one of the most defining (because it can't very well be eq'ed all that much) characteristics of a bands sound.
In the end, bands sound very different from one another, with the individual musicians having their own 'spaces': frequency areas that are theirs to dominate, with a result that we can choose to label 'cutting' or 'sitting' or something else. J's, P's, Rays and Rics ted to have a natural emphasis in a certain frequency range, and so it seems obvious to try and exploit that instead of working against it. Analyzing the band's sound is necessary in order to locate the best area for 'cutting' that is close to the bass' natural tone. There is a huge difference between cutting through in Coldplay and in Morbid Angel, but I think most basses could achieve both with the right amount of adjustment from the bassist and the band.
I'd say your jazz can most likely cut just fine, just make sure you have the necessary eq options available and use your ears.
Martin
I'd say try a Precision first and see it it "cuts" more effectively than your Jazz. IMO, a lot of this has to do with finding out where the "space" is in your band's mix and boosting the frequencies that can fill that space in a pleasing way and allow you to be heard. Like others have said, your rig/eq, strings/setup as well as technique really come into play. You might also spend some time listening to other bands out there with a similar sound and find out what their bassists are using to get the job done.
StuartV said:
This is my experience exactly. I gave up on the J bass because I just can't make it stand out clearly in a band mix. In fact, I'm pretty much done with any bass other than a P or Stingray.
Hrmmm.
Try different pickups. If you're not too afraid to try, the HH MM layout is pretty much the definition of cut, for me.
That being said, I haven't heard any Js which cut like Ps. They tend to be a little more laid back.
Hrmmm.
Try different pickups. If you're not too afraid to try, the HH MM layout is pretty much the definition of cut, for me.
That being said, I haven't heard any Js which cut like Ps. They tend to be a little more laid back.
Guess I need to read a little better.
+10001
I have no problems getting my J to sit (or cut...) in a mix... The key is to adapt to the situation. Sometimes both pickups on equally actually sounds great, (despite the "scoop") Sometimes favouring the bridge about 40% does it...or the neck just a tad. Basically use whatever works - and one room is going to be different from the next, even with the same band.
I have my starting point just like anyone else, but if it's not cutting it I'll try something different until it works.
I guess I'd say that while a P punches through a mix, a J run wide open sort of envelopes a mix.
I too found a very useful sweet spot in between with Model J's in a jazz. Fills in some of the mids but is still big and wide.
I too found a very useful sweet spot in between with Model J's in a jazz. Fills in some of the mids but is still big and wide.
I agree, except that the OP said his bass was already wired in series. (Both of my Jazz Basses have a series/parallel switch, and I go to series for more punch.)
This whole "which cuts through better-- J or P?" topic is endlessly fascinating to me, and I've lived it for years. It's not so simple-- the "Jaco sound" (Jazz Bass with bridge pickup soloed) and John Entwistle's P Bass sound (roundwound strings, tone control all the way up, percussive attack) are both aggressive, but the Jaco thing is "pointy" and the Entwistle thing has more "grind" over all frequencies. Will Lee feels that Jazz Basses are more audible in a mix, but I'm not sure one would have been in the Who.
The "neck pickup favored" Jazz sound can't really match the P sound, but I use it when I want a gentler version (in a duo with an acoustic guitarist, for example).
Strings obviously make a difference, too. The classic argument against the "P Bass is a one trick pony" indictment is to present clips of Jamerson and Entwistle, both using a P Bass, but the former with completely dead flatwound strings and the latter with fresh Rotosound roundwounds. WAY different. Then, you've got Aston "Family Man" Barrett playing thick, fat reggae with a Jazz Bass (flatwounds, neck pickup only) vs. Jaco with a Jazz Bass (bridge pickup only, fresh Rotosound roundwounds).
Then, as someone else said, you've got the context-- the other musicians' personal sounds.
Ahhh... it's an epic quest...
I think youre upside down on this as P's sit down in the mix unless cranked and J's cut thru the mix even at lower volumes. However with the Model J pups, you dont really have a J per se. Maybe try true single coil pickups if youre not digging the DiMarzios. I have the Area J's (not single coils either but they sound much more like single coils) and my J cuts like a razor even with flats on it.
Also try turning up your high mids.
Also try turning up your high mids.
