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Double Bass making it work

R

rkf

Jun 8, 2011
47
0
32
bakersfield
#1
When i first pucked up the DB it was an atempt to play rockabilly music and nothing much more but as i played the instrument i grew fond of that classic cool jazz feel that only seems to come out of the DB well i know my arpegios i know my scales i can learn the charts but how am i suposed to play the lines? I understand how walking works but i cant seem to make it work....pleas help
 
#2
There are a couple of books that you can get to start off--
"Building Walking Bass Lines" by Ed Friedland and "Modern Walking Bass Technique" by Mike Richmond.
"The Bass Tradition" by Todd Coolman is also a good option because those are transcribed lines and solos by many greats.
Jamey Aebersold also sells books of transcribed bass lines from many of his play-alongs.
All of the above are available from Jamey Aebersold Jazz.
However, you can also try to transcribe some lines yourself. That's a really great way to learn as well.
 
#4
Basic concept (a) chord tones on 1 and 3, approach notes (chromatic or diatonic) on 2 and 4, or (b) chord tones for all 4 beats.
More advanced:Play an ascending line using (a) for the first two bars and a more angular ,descending line using just chord tones for the next two bars,the goal is to create a question and answer thing going on in your line. Transcribe Oscar Pettiford,Ray Brown and Paul Chambers.
But whatever you do,KEEP GOOD TIME.
 
#6
dbass87 said:
Do you mean it won't work physically for you to play the lines?
Click to expand...

That was the question I had too. If it's a physical block, you should take a lesson or two from a good jazz bassist. Barring that; you have to hear it in your head before you can play it. One of the best ways to START hearing it in your head is to listen to the guys that did it the best. Over and over. Ten lifetimes aren't enough.... but if you love to play jazz bass, it will be the main thing you hear in your head all the time. It will be as essential as eating, breathing, poopng, and... well you know.
 
#7
It's pretty easy to go through a book and intellectually understand all the concepts and play through the written examples and still not be proficient.

When I began taking lessons, the material was about the same as the Friedland book, but we would spend weeks on each simple concept.

I think it would take a diligent student at least 6 months to honestly absorb most of the info in the Friedland book and have it come out in their playing.

But, of course, you have to know what you want to play, which requires listening. Singing basslines helps too, if you can hold a tune. It allows you to experiment musically without worrying about where the notes are on the bass.
 
#8
It seems like most of us learn to walk thru the data entry method, filling in chord tones an passing tones like it's X,Y,Z, but the truth of the matter is we're playing a quarter note with rhythmic embellishments.

From what you've said, OP, I think you need to listen more. Everything you need to know is on the records.
 
#9
rkf said:
I have building walking bass lines already, like i said i understand it and i know how it works...it just wont work
Click to expand...

You know that pretty much sounds like "I can understand French and I know how it works, I just can't talk to anybody in French.", right?

Which means you don't really understand what's going on. No worries, we ALL been there. But there's a lot of stuff to have under your belt before you can start making sense with walking lines. The biggest thing is getting the sound of the harmony in your ear so that it's not just scratching on a page.
 
#11
rkf said:
...now i have the problem of 'knowing french but not being able to talk to french people'
Click to expand...

See, I still have a problem understanding this. If you KNOW French, sure you may get some pronunciations wrong or occasionally use the wrong tense or not have vocabulary immediately available, but not being able to put a sentence together in French means you don't know French.

Playing a meaningful walking line is NOT so much about vocabulary as it is playing notes with meaning and intent. And you get to that by being able to hear your line as an "arc" through the harmony. Great players hear that arc throughout a whole performance, us lesser mortals try to stay connected as long as possible. But, with respect to various authors, it really is not about "play this on strong beats, play this as an approach note"; that's kind of like saying "Here's a french word, use this at the beginning of every sentence and put this one somehwere in the middle"; you have vocabulary, you have a place to put them, but it doens't make any sense because you don't know what the words mean and you damn sure don't know if they mean what you want to say. I would say that one of the things my book speaks to is how to get your ear in charge of note choice, how to hear what you really want to play. I would also suggest a glance at this thread, it's an exercise that can be used for accompaniment as well as soloing.
 
#12
rkf said:
Most of you hit the nail on the head, i had a teacher for a bit but due to money problems i dropped it and bought some books and now i have the problem of 'knowing french but not being able to talk to french people'
Click to expand...

Ed's advice is all spot on and there's nothing I could add to that ...... apart from the fact I looked at your profile and you are 17.

This stuff takes a long time - it's more like years than weeks/months - I know bassists who have played for decades and still feel they need to improve and work on this stuff. In fact you never stop learning about it.

If you like the language analogy - how many years did it take you to learn to speak english fluently and become confident enough to hold meaningful conversations with other people?

Why should it be any shorter a process for this?
 
#13
Well im 17 but i have had a good 11 years of playing music under my belt since i had a musical family, i see my problem now tho i need to find outher jazz players and just go for it until i feel the ark of my line going through the song and i need an old jazzer to teach me aswell :\
 
#14
Also, it's possible that some kind of brainy Martian could have a superconscious, fluent mastery of French language, but still not have anything to say that would be of any interest to an actual French Earthling. Some musicians are like this, I think.
 
#16
I'll bet they're not as bad as you think.

When I think I'm being boring, my teacher things I'm doing it right. When I think I'm being clever, he sees me as I am, a cheesy, cute kid.

Find some jazz you love and worship it. Things seem like they take forever when you're younger, but you'll cultivate a spring of ideas in no time.
 
#18
Ed Fuqua said:
See, I still have a problem understanding this. If you KNOW French, sure you may get some pronunciations wrong or occasionally use the wrong tense or not have vocabulary immediately available, but not being able to put a sentence together in French means you don't know French.

Playing a meaningful walking line is NOT so much about vocabulary as it is playing notes with meaning and intent. And you get to that by being able to hear your line as an "arc" through the harmony. Great players hear that arc throughout a whole performance, us lesser mortals try to stay connected as long as possible. But, with respect to various authors, it really is not about "play this on strong beats, play this as an approach note"; that's kind of like saying "Here's a french word, use this at the beginning of every sentence and put this one somehwere in the middle"; you have vocabulary, you have a place to put them, but it doens't make any sense because you don't know what the words mean and you damn sure don't know if they mean what you want to say. I would say that one of the things my book speaks to is how to get your ear in charge of note choice, how to hear what you really want to play. I would also suggest a glance at this thread, it's an exercise that can be used for accompaniment as well as soloing.
Click to expand...

Could you embellish on the "arc through the harmony" concept a bit? Are you referring to the idea of making your line travel up the neck weaving through chord tones/ tension notes, and then back down the neck?
 
#19
No, it has nothing to do with shapes or geographic direction. It has to do with hearing each quarter note as part of "melody" you are playing through the composition from the first bar to the very last as one, as connected to each other as the words in a conversation. Each word relates - sometimes apparently, sometimes tangentially - to the ones before it and the ones after it, all with the central idea of communicating the ideas, thoughts and feelings you have with theh vocabulary you have the most nuanced control of.
 
#20
Ed Fuqua said:
No, it has nothing to do with shapes or geographic direction. It has to do with hearing each quarter note as part of "melody" you are playing through the composition from the first bar to the very last as one, as connected to each other as the words in a conversation. Each word relates - sometimes apparently, sometimes tangentially - to the ones before it and the ones after it, all with the central idea of communicating the ideas, thoughts and feelings you have with theh vocabulary you have the most nuanced control of.
Click to expand...

Ok... I read about your exercise from your linked thread, sounds like a good way to go about developing this. But as far as a walking tune that has very few chord changes, such as Milestones, what are your primary objectives for note choices there, since it's the same chord for 16 bars? I try to do lines up and down the neck to keep it interesting, throw in chromatics, vary note order etc., but what else should I focus on in this scenario? i know you should listen as well to try to get call/response things going too, but beyond that...?
 

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