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Double Bass maqam on bass

apologies, this thread is not really about orchestral technique but it seemed like the most fitting place...

to summarize as much as possible: i played a lot of DB in high school, but gradually shifted my focus towards jazz/contemporary and along with it the bass guitar. by the time i graduated and left for college, i wasn't playing DB at all. somehow or other i started taking lessons on the nay, a flute existing in various forms throughout the middle east. it really opened my eyes to the potential of modal music and improvisation outside of jazz idioms.

having an intermediate grasp of the maqam system, it struck me that DB is really just a good fit aesthetically, in terms of tone and range of expression. DB is now relatively common in middle eastern 'art music' ensembles, but it's role is to simply accent the strong beats of the melody and is almost always pizz.

so i thought, why not treat it as a melodic instrument and see what happens? well, this presents a new set of technical obstacles. mainly that 1)maqam-based music has 3/4 tones AKA half-flats and half-sharps and 2)intonation of a note can vary considerably depending on both expressive intonation and the idiosyncrasies of a particular maqam.

obviously, traditional fingering methods do not account for 3/4 tones. and having being reared on simandl, i feel it is too rigid to perform the constant slides, blips, and trills that are integral to the music (but perhaps my impression is wrong).

for the past for days i've been practicing what seems like a mix between 'ud fingerings and rabbath. thinking in terms of the D string, the thumb stays behind E. the index finger covers Eb, E half-flat, and E. the middle finger covers F and (big pivot) F half-sharp and F#. the pinky can hit G if need be. so far this seems workable, although maqams like hijaz (D Eb F# G) require a lot of movement.

i know this is sort of out on a limb and i don't expect anyone to have experience with it, but i'd appreciate any ideas and/or feedback.
 
Are you at all familiar with Mark Deutsch? I am not familiar with maqam, and I don't mean to paint with a broad brush, but from a perspective of one realizing their artistic vision- you may find inspiration- or a kindren spirit.

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Good luck in your pursuit!
 
Are you at all familiar with Mark Deutsch? I am not familiar with maqam, and I don't mean to paint with a broad brush, but from a perspective of one realizing their artistic vision- you may find inspiration- or a kindren spirit.

Invalid Link Removed

Good luck in your pursuit!

yes! mark is a big inspiration and i've spoken with him a few times about his music. he comes from a north indian perspective which is stylistically quite separate from an arab one. but i am interested in being as pan-modal as possible.

Andrew McGregor said:
D Eb F# G is just begging to be fingered 2 4 1 2, across two strings.

it definitely is, in terms of economy of motion. but a common phrase in that mode (where slashes are slides) is Eb \ D, F# / G, which is a bit difficult if you are in the 'simandl box.' here's a really nice improv in this mode Hijaz Violin Taqsim - YouTube

i think it's also worth noting that both arab violinists and 'ud-ists don't shy away from open strings. on both instruments you spend 90% of your time at the nut.
 
It's always fun to play the open D as a drone and up and down the D Hijaz scale on the G-string (D, Eb, F#, G, A, Bb, C, D); especially in a resonant stairwell.

Here I am doing just that in the opening of Rampi Rampi.

If you don't want to play an open string to create a drone, try taping down a note (or using some kind of weight) on an electronic keyboard. I'm doing that on this video of Eshkhemed using the G harmonic minor scale with a few C#s.

But, since we don't have frets you can play whatever quarter-tones you want.

I used to play in a Middle Eastern band for a while but I always listened to this stuff while enjoying a felafel in Toronto.
 
yes! mark is a big inspiration and i've spoken with him a few times about his music. he comes from a north indian perspective which is stylistically quite separate from an arab one. but i am interested in being as pan-modal as possible.

I've heard very little arab music, but when you mentioned that maqam was microtonal I immediately thought of Mark and his amazing music! The fact that he was able to adapt the DB as he has made me think that no matter how dissimilar what you are doing may be, it is still "the same" from the perspective that it is revolutionary application of our amazing instrument!

While I'm sorry that I can't offer you any guidance, I can offer you encouragement!

Namaste,

Joe
 
so i've been sitting with this a few days and practicing as much as my hands allow, and i'm sort of back to square one. well, my bowing is coming back so at least that's an improvement. while pivoting in first position has some cool possibilities, it's not fast enough to execute some lines (like C D Eb D C D Eb D C, simandl in 1/2 position is just more practical).

it might be enough to use simandl but with a variable index finger that can shift between full-flat and half-flat. there's a sort of philosophical divide though; while cross-string travel is much encouraged in western music, vertical single-string travel dominates eastern bowed strings (rebab, kemence, violin to some extent). it seems like simandl is designed to minimize (in both frequency and noticeability) vertical shifting. more thoughts on this later...
 
I started playing Arabic music at UCSB in the mid 90s. North Indian, too. I've been playing on and off with Mesto, an Arabic/world music orchestra for the past 10 years in Los Angeles. Mesto is going to Oman in February, which is exciting!

My experience playing half flats and half sharps in maqam is that a full "chromatic plus quarter tones" fingering is not needed. The music is only in one maqam at a time and non-maqam passing tones are rare, possibly just flat out wrong. I mostly use a squished Simandl-ish 1-4 to get red Bs, Ebs and F#s, which is mostly what I've encountered in the Mohammed Abdel Wahab, Oum Kalthoum-type repertoire. The most important thing is to be able to hear the red notes in your mind before you play them. If you're already playing oud and nay, then you should be fine with that part. :)

Hijaz on the D string: if you want a vocal quality, do it with one finger. Practice like crazy to get the slides in tune every time. Check out Edgar Meyer.

I play in another group, Svara, that is North Indian/new/world acoustic fusion. The track "Blues in Q Flat" has a double bass alap at the top of the tune that you might like. The version on youtube doesn't have much of the vocal-style slides, but the iTunes sample has some, and the album is on Spotify. (EDIT: no, it's not on Spotify, it just appears in my Spotify because it's on my computer, sorry)
 
I started playing Arabic music at UCSB in the mid 90s. North Indian, too. I've been playing on and off with Mesto, an Arabic/world music orchestra for the past 10 years in Los Angeles. Mesto is going to Oman in February, which is exciting!

My experience playing half flats and half sharps in maqam is that a full "chromatic plus quarter tones" fingering is not needed. The music is only in one maqam at a time and non-maqam passing tones are rare, possibly just flat out wrong. I mostly use a squished Simandl-ish 1-4 to get red Bs, Ebs and F#s, which is mostly what I've encountered in the Mohammed Abdel Wahab, Oum Kalthoum-type repertoire. The most important thing is to be able to hear the red notes in your mind before you play them. If you're already playing oud and nay, then you should be fine with that part. :)

Hijaz on the D string: if you want a vocal quality, do it with one finger. Practice like crazy to get the slides in tune every time. Check out Edgar Meyer.

I play in another group, Svara, that is North Indian/new/world acoustic fusion. The track "Blues in Q Flat" has a double bass alap at the top of the tune that you might like. The version on youtube doesn't have much of the vocal-style slides, but the iTunes sample has some, and the album is on Spotify. (EDIT: no, it's not on Spotify, it just appears in my Spotify because it's on my computer, sorry)

aah that's crazy, i go to UCSB! i've been studying nay with dr. marcus for about a year and a half. i was working with 'squished simandl' today and it seems good for most situations...i guess there's no easy way to approach vocal single string travel, just a lot of practice.