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Marginal interest in upright bass

LBS-bass

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Nov 22, 2017
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At almost 60, I started playing bass at a time (late 70's) when only very traditional jazz and orchestral players were, for the most part, interested in the double bass. I took violin lessons when I was a kid, so fretless intonation doesn't scare me, but I've always been happy enough to play a fretted bass guitar.

Nowadays the upright is a lot more in demand. I played a show last night with several bands and was the only electric bassist in the bunch. I'm torn. I watched a woman struggling to get through the crowd with her enormous bass after I tore down my stuff. Did NOT look like something I have any interest in doing. I'm kind of old-fashioned in the sense that I think if my BG is played right, most people won't really care if the tone isn't the same, even in most situations where an upright might be typically employed.

But there are a lot of "Americana" and small jazz groups springing up around here, and mostly they want that sense of "authenticity" which, I could argue, is bunk in the case of Americana unless you're playing a homemade instrument. Bear in mind that my family hails from West Virginia and my granddaddy whittled his own fiddle from a piece of wood. So I'm not trying to be snobby here; nobody doing that back in his day could afford a decent instrument and the whole handcrafted, folksy nature of the music is part of its charm.

So I'm trying to sort out if I should actually take the plunge, get an instrument, and take some lessons. There's a guy here who's getting up in years and he's willing to teach me; might be a good lead on work, if I do that, since he's got a lot of connections. But I'm getting up in years, too, and I'll need to brush up a lot on my sight reading, as well. Wondering if it's worth the time it will take to achieve the level of competence I'll need in order to feel comfortable seeking work.

What say you all?
 
Fairly strenuous instrument to play and haul around. Some folks just grab it and play, but I (being AR) went the bow/Simandl route. If you are playing bluegrass, just grab and go.

I would likely be playing bluegrass and jazz. Mostly pizzicato stuff but if I'm going to brush up on my reading might as well learn how to bow, too, don't you think?
 
Recommend you get a teacher if you plan to play jazz.

As I mentioned, I do have a teacher lined up. But I'm curious as to why you think jazz specifically would require a teacher for upright? I am already playing a good bit of jazz on the bass; is there something about upright technique that makes it more challenging beyond the distances and intonation?
 
At almost 60, I started playing bass at a time (late 70's) when only very traditional jazz and orchestral players were, for the most part, interested in the double bass. I took violin lessons when I was a kid, so fretless intonation doesn't scare me, but I've always been happy enough to play a fretted bass guitar.

Nowadays the upright is a lot more in demand. I played a show last night with several bands and was the only electric bassist in the bunch. I'm torn. I watched a woman struggling to get through the crowd with her enormous bass after I tore down my stuff. Did NOT look like something I have any interest in doing. I'm kind of old-fashioned in the sense that I think if my BG is played right, most people won't really care if the tone isn't the same, even in most situations where an upright might be typically employed.

But there are a lot of "Americana" and small jazz groups springing up around here, and mostly they want that sense of "authenticity" which, I could argue, is bunk in the case of Americana unless you're playing a homemade instrument. Bear in mind that my family hails from West Virginia and my granddaddy whittled his own fiddle from a piece of wood. So I'm not trying to be snobby here; nobody doing that back in his day could afford a decent instrument and the whole handcrafted, folksy nature of the music is part of its charm.

So I'm trying to sort out if I should actually take the plunge, get an instrument, and take some lessons. There's a guy here who's getting up in years and he's willing to teach me; might be a good lead on work, if I do that, since he's got a lot of connections. But I'm getting up in years, too, and I'll need to brush up a lot on my sight reading, as well. Wondering if it's worth the time it will take to achieve the level of competence I'll need in order to feel comfortable seeking work.

What say you all?
Playing string bass can open a lot of doors, but it's not for everyone. Which doors open depends upon the skills you develop. If you want to open lot's of doors, you need to read notation and chord changes, and be competent with the bow. Most people I know who have tried to transition from electric to string bass really struggle with the bow.

I played string bass first and then learned electric (actually started on viola). In general, string bass requires a lot more hand strength and uses totally different muscles. When I first started playing electric, I simply applied the same Simandl pizz technique I had learned while playing string bass. But over time the way I approach each instrument has evolved in significantly different directions. Now, I use one finger per fret on electric, so the instruments no longer share a fingering system. Today, I pretty much view string bass and electric bass as two drastically different instruments that happen to share 4 strings. My main instrument is now a 6-string electric, and for many years I doubled on a 6-string EUB and 4-string, string bass.

Consider renting a string bass to see how well you get along with the instrument.

I find many audiences are surprisingly receptive to EUBs...but musicians can sometimes be snooty cork sniffers. As a player I sometimes used all three instruments during performances, so I could pick the instrument that worked best with the composition and performance style; for example, electric with commercial music, EUB with modern jazz, string bass with jazz standards.

Good luck with your journey :thumbsup:.
 
Thanks to you both. Let me ask you this: Let's say a player is good on BG with intervals, fingering, can improvise walking lines over fairly complicated changes (real book stuff) with charts and by ear, and has good familiarity with written notation but has not needed to use that skill for a very long time (so basically needs to relearn it). Do you think that player, with a good instructor, could be up to speed for basic club work (not orchestral-level playing) within a year or so?
 
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Thanks to you both. Let me ask you this: Let's say a player is good on BG with intervals, fingering, can improvise walking lines over fairly complicated changes (real book stuff) with charts and by ear, and has good familiarity with written notation but has not needed to use that skill for a very long time (so basically needs to relearn it). Do you think that player, with a good instructor, could be up to speed for basic club work (not orchestral-level playing) within a year or so?
I would say yes. You have the musical experience and background to make it happen in that period of time (or less), but the "marginal interest" in the thread title worries me a bit. I find that upright demands commitment, moreso than electric. At least, it did for me when I took it up after having played electric fretless for about 15 years. I have no doubt that you can do it, though, if you really want to and set your mind to it. It's just that word "marginal" that gives me pause. This may say more about the difficulties I personally encountered, though, I realize.

Best wishes if you give it a go! I found it very fulfilling, in a very different way than electric bass. And as a bonus, after playing upright for a while, electric felt effortless, from a physical standpoint.
 
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Thanks to you both. Let me ask you this: Let's say a player is good on BG with intervals, fingering, can improvise walking lines over fairly complicated changes (real book stuff) with charts and by ear, and has good familiarity with written notation but has not needed to use that skill for a very long time (so basically needs to relearn it). Do you think that player, with a good instructor, could be up to speed for basic club work (not orchestral-level playing) within a year or so?

With the necessary talent and dedication, and your background, you could easily be gigging in a few months...or you might find you hate playing the beast and decide you would rather turn it into kindling. How long it will take you to be gig ready will largely depend upon the technical requirements of the music. But, don't be surprised if hand strength limits you more than technical ability.
 
Another vote to simply rent* a 3/4 DB to see & feel for yourself if it's something that you'd like to invest more time and money into.
You may find that it's an absolute blast, and decide to go all the way in for it?

There are many music stores that provide student rentals for orchestral instruments.

And yes, I double with a traditional DB (3/4 Shen) and an EUB (BSX Allegro).
 
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I would say yes. You have the musical experience and background to make it happen in that period of time (or less), but the "marginal interest" in the thread title worries me a bit. I find that upright demands commitment, moreso than electric. At least, it did for me when I took it up after having played electric fretless for about 15 years. I have no doubt that you can do it, though, if you really want to and set your mind to it. It's just that word "marginal" that gives me pause. This may say more about the difficulties I personally encountered, though, I realize.

Best wishes if you give it a go! I found it very fulfilling, in a very different way than electric bass. And as a bonus, after playing upright for a while, electric felt effortless, from a physical standpoint.

Thanks. Yes, my interest is there, but there's a part of me wondering if the juice will be worth the squeeze, so to speak. I'm tempted in part because the player who wants to give me lessons is in failing health and I have been subbing for him on some gigs, so this would open up more doors if he finds he's unable to play in the future. The lazy part of me keeps telling me to just keep doing what I do, but I also enjoy being challenged so maybe this will be the next phase for me and maybe I'll enjoy it. I could probably rent a decent instrument from someone I know; I have several friends here who play upright and have instruments that they aren't using.
 
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I'd say if you're willing to put in an hour or two a day you'd be up to speed within a year if not sooner *with* an instructor. I don't think you'd be very good with the bow by that point but almost no one hires jazz guys for their ability to play arco. I would absolutely recommend being able to double on upright, it will open up a lot of gigs to you IMO.
 
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Not wanting to deprive anyone of the joy of personal discovery, however I went down that road for two years and it was OK. Glad I did it mostly.

I’m a big guy yet I did not enjoy wrestling that thing from place to place. But show up to a job with a DB and you get that wave of appreciation and... I don’t know what it is. Everybody loves to see that big bastard. Way more of a value than the musical benefit, from my perspective.

Edit: It took me about two weeks of serious woodshedding to be ready to play out with it.
 
I played upright for years but had a long layoff and sold my upright.

I recently bought an NS Designs NXT electric upright, which tends to surprise people. With the right preamp, it sounds pretty darn upright, but is much easier to transport and kind of a conversation starter.

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At almost 60, I started playing bass at a time (late 70's) when only very traditional jazz and orchestral players were, for the most part, interested in the double bass.

...

I'm torn. I watched a woman struggling to get through the crowd with her enormous bass after I tore down my stuff. Did NOT look like something I have any interest in doing.

...

What say you all?

If an enormous bass scares you then don't get an enormous bass. @Pilgrim beat me to it with the suggestion of the NS Design bass, I don't have one but I'm considering it. To avoid the problems of a large bass consider an electric, semi-acoustic, or small scale bass. There's a few discussions on the double bass side of the forum on things like this. As I recall the idea of a small bass for an adult seems to be generally discouraged for a variety of reasons, but you do what works for you.
 
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