Marginal interest in upright bass

[bassedsouth]

You really should try upright , regardless ...... you may just simply love it !

 

[Bassheart365]

I play mostly electric but own and play an upright. Jazz is on a much higher level than bluegrass when it comes to the upright.

 

[Mastermold]

At almost 60, I started playing bass at a time (late 70's) when only very traditional jazz and orchestral players were, for the most part, interested in the double bass. I took violin lessons when I was a kid, so fretless intonation doesn't scare me, but I've always been happy enough to play a fretted bass guitar.

Nowadays the upright is a lot more in demand. I played a show last night with several bands and was the only electric bassist in the bunch. I'm torn. I watched a woman struggling to get through the crowd with her enormous bass after I tore down my stuff. Did NOT look like something I have any interest in doing. I'm kind of old-fashioned in the sense that I think if my BG is played right, most people won't really care if the tone isn't the same, even in most situations where an upright might be typically employed.

But there are a lot of "Americana" and small jazz groups springing up around here, and mostly they want that sense of "authenticity" which, I could argue, is bunk in the case of Americana unless you're playing a homemade instrument. Bear in mind that my family hails from West Virginia and my granddaddy whittled his own fiddle from a piece of wood. So I'm not trying to be snobby here; nobody doing that back in his day could afford a decent instrument and the whole handcrafted, folksy nature of the music is part of its charm.

So I'm trying to sort out if I should actually take the plunge, get an instrument, and take some lessons. There's a guy here who's getting up in years and he's willing to teach me; might be a good lead on work, if I do that, since he's got a lot of connections. But I'm getting up in years, too, and I'll need to brush up a lot on my sight reading, as well. Wondering if it's worth the time it will take to achieve the level of competence I'll need in order to feel comfortable seeking work.

What say you all?

Great thread--I'm in a similar situation just thinking about taking up DB. Been looking at it more for recording than performing with one. Just trying to figure out the time it would take to learn it well. BG is all I've ever known. Renting as some here have suggested may be the way to start.

 

[Common Tater]

The universe may be trying to tell you something here.

What's the universe trying to say? Don't let the ladies have all the fun?

 

[Lownotes75]

I had one for a while and took a few lessons in my late teens, but it was done out of a sort of electric bass player inferiority complex to the history and tradition of the double bass. In the end I decided I didn't want to serve two masters and the upright while fun was a distraction. to me the bass guitar is a guitar, and while there is plenty to learn from the great DB players sonically, physically they are wildly different beasts. I still appreciate the great double bass players, I just decided that one does not automatically lead to the other in my personal situation.

 

[Dabndug]

Biggest tips:
- Know what you want to achieve by taking up DB;
- Research the DB resources in your area - retailers, luthiers, techs, teachers.

Having goals and understanding the available resources will help you avoid wasting time and energy on false starts and useless tangents.

 

[Fab Superlative]

No way around it, yer' plucking hand is going to feel like a wet noodle fresh off an encounter with a Firestone press (until you get used to it).
There is no shame in taping up yer' plucking fingers especially when first starting off.
As for corralling & transporting that big ole' doghouse- if you have just an average auto, most of them have reclining front bucket seats. Just recline the passenger side down and stuff the bass in there on an angle. You'll start using phrases like 'I didn't think it would fit in that way' and such. Being a country gal, you'll figure it out.

As for rustling it around & schlepping it, mosey on down to home depot/lowes/menards etc, and score some big long bungee cords (3 footers or better) and a small preferably collapsible handtruck/dolly. And just bungee it up and get that doggie rollin'. Folks usually get out the way, and step aside when they see some big ole' thing like that rollin' towards 'em anyway. 'Course if ya' want to be dainty and free hand carry it & keep sayin' scuze me scuze thru the crowd, well that's entirely up to you. Heck, while you're at the hardware store picking up the bungee's just grab one of those little hand held compressed air horns and trust me here (personal experience) once you start barreling along with that doggie all trussed up and toot'n that air horn, you will know a bit to how Moses felt @The Red Sea.

Look at it this a way, just a little added entertainment value for the venue. Least that how I've been known roll from time to time.

 

[REV]

To me upright bass is practically a different instrument. Hand positions that I use on electric bass will usually be different on upright. I rely on open strings a lot more when playing upright. For me my upright gigs are so few and far between it's really difficult to maintain my calluses, especially on my plucking hand. Still, I really enjoy it as an instrument and while an audience may not be able to tell the difference, I think it's really hard to play an electric bass like an upright. It's a different musical experience for me and my interaction with other musicians is different. Yes it is a pain to transport (read Beneath the Underdog by Charles Mingus) but it's worth the effort. There is a lot more to playing the instrument especially related to strings and setup. One brand of strings may play and sound completely different than another (gut vs synthetic vs steel) and a good setup by a trained technician will make all the difference in the world. There's a lot of good info on the DB side of Talkbass.

 

[_One//Man//Mutiny_]

I bought this guy for an upright sound

Hadean Bass Uke UKB-23-33 Long Scale - RondoMusic.com

Not a bad little bass at all and with a hard shell case it was under $220
Not expensive and not intimidating and it sounds close enough for me! Just as nice as the lower kala basses, this one’s the longer scale one, they also come in solid body.

 

[LaFaro01]

As I mentioned, I do have a teacher lined up. But I'm curious as to why you think jazz specifically would require a teacher for upright? I am already playing a good bit of jazz on the bass; is there something about upright technique that makes it more challenging beyond the distances and intonation?

the most simple answer is... these are two different instruments, which have "by chance" the same tunings and functions in a band... I've been playing eletric bass for years and years, but starting with the upright was learning a whole new thing. If you look in the history, electric basses derive from the family of guitars and uprights from violins and bass viols, so it's no wonder that there are "some differences"...

 

[saabfender]

I played upright for years but had a long layoff and sold my upright.

I recently bought an NS Designs NXT electric upright, which tends to surprise people. With the right preamp, it sounds pretty darn upright, but is much easier to transport and kind of a conversation starter.

View attachment 3234664

I played one of these at Sam Ash the other day. I must admit it was a lot of fun. And a little funny looking. Mostly a lot of fun, though. Not cheap.

 

[Bander]

Lots of good input from upright players here. Couple more things:

You can tote an upright into a gig and be ready to play faster than a bass guitar. Faster tear down too.
You can transport an upright in many two door compact cars. Mine regularly goes in a 2 door Wrangler.
An EUB has its purpose, but is heavier and still bulky. Takes longer to setup/tear down too. Mine rests.
An upright earns its identity by its distinctive tone, and visual appearance. It adds a lot in both respects.
I teach workshops where you can learn to play an upright in 1 minute. I love the reaction by students.
The learning curve is dominated by the physical training required. But its more technique than pure strength.
Many find the size to be [unfairly] objectionable, and seek [less effective] alternatives as a result.
90% of bass guitar material is approachable on an upright.

 

[Reiska]

Now about the upright bass, which has become my main instrument. I would not recommend it for any reason other than the personal challenge and satisfaction of playing it. It's one of those things where, if you can live without it, then you probably should. On the other hand, it might be loads of fun. I put up with all of the negatives of playing the Beast because it's really a joy to play. I would keep playing it, even if I never played another gig.

This + 1000

NY jazz bassist Ed Fuqua wrote something like this in similar thread, " if it`s the sound you hear in your head and you absolutely have to make, then go for it all the way, get the best bass you can afford and commit yourself. Otherwise it`s going to be too hard to play, too big to carry around, takes too much space and time ".

There`s absolutely nothing wrong in playing the slab only, and upright is not for everyone. It demands commitment and passion ( and most propably tutorage ) to get over the physical hurdles it represents. Ocassional dabbling is propably only going to be painful.

With that said, there`s nothing like it. Floors shaking when you draw some low notes with the bow. Playing a simple line that lives in it`s own frequency zone in the mix, and you feel so connected with it all. Did I just make THAT SOUND happen? It came from this giant piece of wood, but it was my hands? Actually, it was my hands, my ears, my legs, my spine, my freakin` ass that made THAT SOUND happen?

I`d say go for it.

 

[BigBear77]

I dabbled this past summer. I didn’t think moving the instrument around was that bad, although I am a pretty big guy
That said, I rented from a reputable local instrument shop. The bass was still a little beat up and the setup was horrible, the bridge/neck where not in line. It was frustrating.

Long story short start with a decent instrument, rent one, or take lessons where they have decent instruments. On the electric I find that even with a sub-optimal setup we can still play decent, with a sub-optimal setup on the upright it’s a bear to play decent IMO.

Head over to the “other side” of the forum. I got some great info from the member over there.

 

[gumbynotpokey]

We have a bluegrass venue here in Western NC that has a rule against any electric instruments whatsoever, and they hold to this rule very tightly. That is to say, they want only acoustic instruments, not A/E, and they don't permit amps at all either. Here's my point, but it might be a longshot: electric bass players might not even be aware of venues and gig opportunities due to the space/distance between the two musical cultures.

 

[IamGroot]

What's the universe trying to say? Don't let the ladies have all the fun?

I am going to get a funny haircut, a hat, a white tee shirt and a lot of tats and slap dat bass. Maybe even sing.

It will be my revenge on my kids.

 

[Mike Marshall]

As I mentioned, I do have a teacher lined up. But I'm curious as to why you think jazz specifically would require a teacher for upright? I am already playing a good bit of jazz on the bass; is there something about upright technique that makes it more challenging beyond the distances and intonation?

The technique is totally different and the scale much bigger so the jump to upright takes work

 

[Drang22]

LBS, I'll share my recent experience-

I'm 61, and have played guitar and electric bass for over 40 years. This past spring, out of the blue, I got offered a chance to play with a 17 piece jazz/dance band. Not a super serious group, mostly old guys like me just trying to keep a foot in. But some really talented guys, and we play a few gigs.
This required reading charts, which I had never really done on bass. In May, I was literally figuring out where each note on the page was located on the neck. With lots of practice, my reading skills have come a long, long way since them, to where I now feel like a pretty decent sight reader.
Anyway, early on with this new group, I figured out that EB was not the right instrument. We're mostly playing 40's and 50's stuff, and all the original recordings are DB. So I borrowed a DB for a week just to check it out, and honestly, while I loved that big hunk of wood, from a practical standpoint I just found it too overwhelming. The size, cost, learning curve and hand strength needed just made it seem like more than I could undertake at the time. I ended up buying a Stagg EUB, (which I returned a month later) and then eventually a NS wave EUB (much better). Even the EUB was very hard at first for me, especially on the left hand. I could barely play it for 5 minutes. But with dedicated practice, my strength and skills improved faster than I would have thought at first. I felt ready to use it with the band after about 4 months, and did my first gig with it just this past weekend. I'm using it on about half our repertoire now- the really fast stuff or songs with a lot of hand shifts are still on the EB. But I have to say I've really gotten to love playing the EUB, sometimes even better than my beloved Fender Jazz (sad to say). I'm even starting to GAS pretty bad to give the DB another try, but I'll have to see about that. All in all, it has been a great learning experience and musical journey to a new place (for me), and I feel blessed to have had the opportunity.
So LBS, my opinion is that you should go for it! I think the DB is harder and less convenient than the EUB, but probably more satisfying in the long run. But either could be a fun experience for you. Your age has nothing really to do with it- you can gain the hand strength and callouses if your willing to put in the time. And it is absolutely worth it- do it!

 

[brianrost]

Do you think that player, with a good instructor, could be up to speed for basic club work (not orchestral-level playing) within a year or so?

Way less than a year. Three months if you're dedicated. You can already play the music on BG, so all you need to learn is the mechanics of the DB, mainly the posture and different right and left hand techniques. Bowing is very important to develop intonation.

Taking on the upright really kick-started my career. On BG I was competing with hundreds of players. At the time I started on DB I was competing with nobody.

 

[Duanestuermer]

I also recommend to rent before buying.
An even marginally playable good sounding upright would cost somewhere in the 5 to 10K range, unless you find one at a yard sale and spend a couple K to have it brought up to snuff.
Cheepo upright usually physically impossible to get a sound out of, and tear your hands up in a few moments
I bought my first really good string bass in the 70s for playing jazz, and it was almost $5K back then, same bass would run $40K now.